14-08-2002 22:26									#1
	PRODUCTION, your friend and enemy Put an end to popups!

Hello again noble and learning newbies

SO, you want to learn about the key principles about production eh? Well, sit tight, and get ready for a barrage of information, 1..2..3.....

To start, production is your greatest allie and one of your worst enemies. Production on this game was radicaly different from CTP in that you counted in small numbers such as shields, no spooks, and that you counted in numbers like 10, 50, 100, instead of 100,11000, and ect... But, after much deliberation and thought to the matter, I have came to the conclusion that this games maximum production (acheivable when playing NORMAL rules) is 1-450 shields, hopw is this possible? Well, it is all possible in the modern age, stick around, and i'll show you how!

Now, when you start a new game against the AI, your first goal is strictly production, to build archers, horsemen if your a warmonger like me, or temples, granaries, and libraries, ect... if you're a pacifist. Attaining production is no easy thing, sure, building a bunch of mines on grassland will work in the beggining, but, ounce you get republic and monarchy, and get to second age and have to tear those down for irrigation, the fun really begines. 1: mine ALL and put roads on ALL hills either in or out of yuor territroy if you are thinking about expanding (Putting cities in only grassland areas is a bad idea unless it is there to make workers only or settlers.) 2:send all of your excess laborers to hill areas to with at least a mine, and hopefully a road. (Mountaines are better because they give you three production instead of 2, but hills have a food also.)3: try and mine hills and mountains with coal, or iron it it, they both add a mondo amount of production to it, salt peter can also give you an added production.4:Protect your production areas with defender units, in multiplayer when civ3 exp. comes out, human players will often try and cut off your production to cut off a city from making reinforcements if they are outnumbered by the defenders.And 5:Wait till' industrial age!!

INDUSTRIAL AGE PRODUCTION

The industrial age offers you the first glimps of what kind of massive production you can get. Take haste when getting a factory, it produces more production and less polution than a 20+ pop city does!!

When steam engines is done, try and wait or go ahead and star construction of the Iron Works, this small wonder can make your city a super production city when factory comes along. Try and wait after the factory is done, often you will get the factory before you half done with iron works, so be patient young one.
Ounce you have the factory, I would probably go ahead and make the coal plant, though it will produce a lot more pollution with it, it will make the factory and possibly the iron works MUCH more efficiant, and when solar power comes along, you can rid yourself of it.
In the later half of the industrial age, (or you can go straight for it!!!) the hover dam will provide a massive amount of even more production to ALL or most of your cities.

MODERN AGE PRODUCTION

In the modern age, you get your first chance to clean all the poluting cities you now are probably having to clean up every turn. Thankfully, if you build both pollution kill buildings, it will lower your total pollution down to only 4!!! Making pollution problems A LOT rarer, at the price of maintnance at least. Personaly, being the war-monger myself, I go for robotics and get the manufacturing plant, this is important to acheiving that super production city I said earlier. The manufacturing plant increases over-all production by 50%, lets think of it in this way, I have 150 production, and I build it, I then have 225 production, but, that is nothing to what next improvement you can make.
The next improvement is the mother load of production...the nuclear plant. With this baby, you can come very close to that production I mentioned, at a price of course. The nuclear plants mega amount of added production comes at the price of a potential desastor, (gulp) a nuclear melt-down. a nuclear melt down is the colmunation of all hell breaking lose, your city loses 50% of its improvements, (luckly no wonders are lost) and the surround 8 sqaurs are completly devestated by pollution, and the possibility that they will mutate into a lesser grade square, thought it is low, it is very much a reality. My thought on nuclear plants is, " if your willing to take the risk, shoot, go right ahead!" With the nuclear plant, a city can achieve 400+ production added with the iron works, factory, manufacturing plant, hydro plant, and solar plant, now, 400 production is the amount early wonders took to cost, and modern wonders only need 650- production, 2 turns baby, think of the possibilities!

Well, my overall thought is that production is the only factor very important to a civ decides science, heh, you don't need science if you can churn out units like crazy and steal the AI's techs, just remeber that, "more production=more pollution" until you reach modern age and build a conservation center.

Well folks, till' next time, IEN KOUF

	15-08-2002 00:17									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Speak English.

	15-08-2002 00:38									#3
	Re: PRODUCTION, your friend and enemy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dukovsky Hello again noble and learning newbies

Oops, I must be in the wrong place here, I'm not noble

quote: When steam engines is done, try and wait or go ahead and star construction of the Iron Works

Yeah, if you are lucky enough to be able to build it, and double lucky that it is in a city with good production and few corruption. So far, I only saw this happening once to me, so don't bet on it.

quote: . . . so be patient young one.

I don't know your age, but I find it extremely funny that people who have exactly 9 posts on this board start calling others young

quote: Personaly, being the war-monger myself, I go for robotics and get the manufacturing plant, this is important to acheiving that super production city I said earlier. The manufacturing plant increases over-all production by 50%, lets think of it in this way, I have 150 production, and I build it, I then have 225 production . . .

I salute you with your patience to get so far in the tech tree, I only went to the manufacturing plant 2 times: once to see it, and once because I was in a scenario.

But, you are wrong in your calculations: a manufactoring plant does not add 50% to the shields you already have, but will add 50% of the original shields. So if you have a 100 shield city withouth a factory (I know, unlikely, but just an example for easy counting), it will give you 150 with a factory, and 200 with factory and manufactoring.

quote: With the nuclear plant, a city can achieve 400+ production added with the iron works, factory, manufacturing plant, hydro plant, and solar plant

Well, Dukovsky, I really advice you to be a little more precise on this board, and further some in game checking might be a good thing too. Don't understand me wrong, I like your enthousiasm, but this 'fact' is simply not true. A nuclear plant does not add another 100% on top of any other power plant, it will replace those. Further, the same as with the manufactoring plants, it doesn't add 100% on top of already existing facilities, but adds 100% of the original shields. So, a 100 shields city with factory, manu. plant, and nuclear plant gets 300 shields.

Ironworks the same: it will not double all shields, but add another 100% of the original (IIRC, it is so rare that I'm not completely sure on the effects). So the same city with all improvements can get to 400 shields.


Okay, and now for my (precise) calculations, feel free to correct me if I slip somewhere.
The maximum amount of shields a city can produce without any improvements requires the following things:
1. 20 iron-hills, mined, and RRed (producing 6 shields each). This will mean that the city starves, so each turn workers have to be added from other cities. Further, it will require the editor to set it up, no way you are going to get this with the normal random map generator.
2. no waste, so it has to be the capital.
3. Golden Age, and mobilization: these will add 1 shield each to all tiles, including the base tile (goes up from 2 to 4, the hills go up to 8)

So, I get to 20*8+4 = 164 shields theoretically possible. On top of this, you can have the factory (+50%), manufactoring plant (+50%), nuclear plant (+100%) and ironworks (+100%). This will get the theoretical maximum up to 492 shields. I think that if you are able to get a 200 shield city in one of your games, you are a lucky guy. My record was 186, but without mobilization (in GA). This would have put me over the 200.

DeepO

	15-08-2002 00:59									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by des-esseintes Speak English.

You mean I was reading sanskrit the whole time?!

Ass.

If you want to be rude to someone in an appropriate forum, go to an AOL chat room, otherwise post useful comments or be quiet.

DeepO is correct that some of your "facts" are off a little bit, but your post is still welcomed and appreciated for its helpfulness. And your English is fine, if slightly broken in places. However, in an Internet posting/chat room/forum, who can honestly tell?

	15-08-2002 02:15									#5
	Re: Re: PRODUCTION, your friend and enemy Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DeepO I don't know your age, but I find it extremely funny that people who have exactly 9 posts on this board start calling others young

Since when did post count become proof of age? Or civing experience for that matter... although some facts are a little off, most of which you pointed out.

	15-08-2002 11:50									#6
	Put an end to popups!

2DeepO
Addition:
If you have 20 iron-hills, then can build IronWorks only if you have coal in base tile

My record 191 without mobilization, in good place: only hills and flood-plains (promised lands )

	15-08-2002 14:10									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Since when did post count become proof of age? Or civing experience for that matter... although some facts are a little off, most of which you pointed out.

1. he said he didn't knew anything about his age
2. I agree that it's quiet strange to walk newly into a place, and start to talk like you're the man who knows everything and will teach the rest. That's just not done.

	15-08-2002 14:35									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy 1. he said he didn't knew anything about his age 2. I agree that it's quiet strange to walk newly into a place, and start to talk like you're the man who knows everything and will teach the rest. That's just not done.

His thoughts on strategy arent exactly great insights, but i welcome his input and effort, especially writing that lot. It wasnt offensive to me, quite a breath of fresh air actually, like coracle.

	15-08-2002 17:57									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

oh, that's right. His insights are more than welcome!
Pherhaps he can replace coracle

	15-08-2002 18:00									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Interesting piece of sociology, this.

	15-08-2002 18:41									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, production is the key to the game. He with the most units wins.

	16-08-2002 02:46									#12
	Re: Re: Re: PRODUCTION, your friend and enemy Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Since when did post count become proof of age? Or civing experience for that matter... although some facts are a little off, most of which you pointed out.

It doesn't, of course. But is there a problem that I found it a funny phrase? If I hear someone saying 'young one' to another, I immediately think of a granddad, teaching the values of life to his grandchildren, while sitting in a lazy chair smoking a pipe. The Apolyton equivalent would be someone with a huge reputation, coming from many posts, an early sign on date, and generally being regarded as bringing new insights and tactics to the board. Dukovsky is simply not someone like this in my eyes, and I doubt it that he is 70 years old... so I found it funny, and I'm sure it was also meant this way.

avpalov: you are very right in your commentary, plus I see that I made a mistake: that should be 19 coal-hills +1 iron hill (Iron only gives 1 shield extra, coal 2 IIRC), meaning that you can get to a theoretical maximum of 489. And while we're at it, there should also be a river in the radius, to support the nuclear plant.

DeepO

	16-08-2002 05:19									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by DeepO The maximum amount of shields a city can produce without any improvements requires the following things: 1. 20 iron-hills, mined, and RRed (producing 6 shields each). This will mean that the city starves, so each turn workers have to be added from other cities. Further, it will require the editor to set it up, no way you are going to get this with the normal random map generator. 2. no waste, so it has to be the capital. 3. Golden Age, and mobilization: these will add 1 shield each to all tiles, including the base tile (goes up from 2 to 4, the hills go up to 8) So, I get to 20*8+4 = 164 shields theoretically possible. On top of this, you can have the factory (+50%), manufactoring plant (+50%), nuclear plant (+100%) and ironworks (+100%). This will get the theoretical maximum up to 492 shields.

Sigh... I really should be more careful. I just reread my calculations, and they are way off: I multiplied by 3, instead of adding 300%... I should have multiplied by 4... Okay, so here is the corrected version:

The maximum amount of shields a city can produce without any improvements requires the following things:
1. 19 coal-hills, mined, and RRed (producing 6 shields each). This will mean that the city starves, so each turn workers have to be added from other cities. Further, it will require the editor to set it up, no way you are going to get this with the normal random map generator.
2. 1 iron-hill, mined and RRed in order to build the Ironworks. Producing 5 shields.
3. no waste, so it has to be the capital.
4. Golden Age, and mobilization: these will add 1 shield each to all tiles, including the base tile (goes up from 2 to 4, the hills go up to 8 and 7)
5. river nearby in order to build the nuclear plant

So, I get to 19*8+7+4 = 163 shields theoretically possible. On top of this, you can have the factory (+50%), manufactoring plant (+50%), nuclear plant (+100%) and ironworks (+100%). This will get the theoretical maximum of 652 shields.

DeepO