15-08-2002 06:09									#31
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quote: Also, The Light of Other Days is fascinating - at least conceptually.

The co-author of that book, Stephen Baxter, hasn't been mentioned yet, so I will. He writes hard sci-fi and is very entertaining.

quote: I read a book by Peter F Hamilton (The Reality Dysfunction), I hated it intensly after 500 pages...

I have read the entire trilogy, and it has become one of my favourites of all-time. It does get a bit weird at about page 500, but is definately worth sticking with.

For the entire trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton:
The Reality Disfunction
The Neutronium Alchemist
The Naked God

Kim Stanley Robinson is also a good author, notable for his Martians trilogy. Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars.

	15-08-2002 07:09									#32
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You didn't tell us what sort of science fiction you liked so it's kind of hard to come up with recommendations. Luckily, you've seem to have read the most popular names out there (Simmons, Asimov, Brin) so let me introduce you to some "lesser lights":

Sherri Tepper writes some of the best character driven science fiction out there. Unabashedly feminist, her books all have female protagonists whom generally go through an emotional and ethical trial by fire by the end of the book. I highly recommend both Grass and Six Moon Dance (Grass is better), stay away from The Family Tree until you decide that you like her - it is the sort of book where her fans were forgiving and her critics were relentless... I bought it but that's because my suspension of disbelief is held up by a mighty rope (I'm a fan).

The aforementioned Robert J. Sawyer is worth reading as well: his books tend to be light in # of words (though not light in meaning!), so stick to the mass-market paperbacks with him - though he is one of my favorite writers I will NEVER buy a hardback as there just isn't enough to read to justify the price. Sawyer tends to write novels featuring 2 characteristics:

1. The protagonist is usually undergoing some sort of physical/medical trauma ala oncoming Parkinsons (The Terminal Experiment), cancer (Calculating God), Huntington's Disease (Frameshift).

2. While undergoing the early stages of the disease, the protagonists usually deal with Big Issues such as the existence of the soul (Factoring Humanity), did God create the Universe? (Calculating God), and personality replication inside a computer (The Terminal Experiment).

It offers a nice juxtaposition not seen often in science fiction: real people suffering from real problems while grappling with Big Topics.

Hal Clement is not a "lesser light" by any stretch of the imagination, but his most famous works were published in the 1950's-60's. However, I HIGHLY recommend one of his more recent works, Half Life, which was published just a few years ago. On the surface it is another sci-fi "race", this time a race to save humanity and Earth-life in general from a series of diseases which are so devastating and regular that the Earth's population decrease can be described mathematically as having a "half-life" of every 60 years. But deep down, it is a study of Man: society has become regimented, militarized to the pursuit of science bent upon finding the answer to the diseases. The laws in effect in this society, too, are based upon trying to find a solution and also try to guide people in "proper" scientific thinking, which culminated in General Order 6:

quote: In view of the common human tendency, when seeking to explain observations, to favor the first speculation which comes to mind, the following procedures will be observed by all ranks: a. No speculation by any member of the Services will be reported to higher-ranking personnel unless accompanied by (i) a comparably plausible alternative speculation, or (ii) a detailed procedure for testing the one proffered. b. If the said speculation occurs during a general discussion, either formal or informal, then (i) or (ii) may be delayed until after the end of the said discussion. Alternative ideas contributed by participants other than the originator of the speculation will be regarded as satisfying 1a (i) above. 2. This rule is not intended to discourage speculation, which is recognized as a necessary first step in developing any body of knowledge, but to help preserve objectivity as far as possible in both private reasoning and public debate

The effect of the above Order on the reasoning and decision making ability of the people the book follow is subtle and devastating. Put into place to encourage speculation, rather it... well, I'd rather have you read the book to find out.

A lot of people (well, everybody) in my monthly science fiction novel discussion group couldn't stand Half Life but that is because they totally missed the point... but that is another for later. I seriously recommend it and hope that you enjoy it as much as I did - I thought the book so wonderful that I wrote Mr. Clement a fan letter: at 34 years of age!

Michael Flynn: If you're interested in near-future science fiction you could do far worse than to turn to Mr. Flynn's "star" tetralogy: Firestar, Rogue Star, Lodestar, Falling Stars, which feature a deep, involving look at a woman who jump starts the space industry. Fascinating stuff.

	15-08-2002 07:24									#33
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sorry, but I like much more than I dislike (it is a rare book that I dislike even though I guess I should mention that I have not been too impressed with L Ron Hubbard)

I like Sheri Tepper although if I read to many of her books in a row I start getting annoyed by the extremity of some of the feminism

I will try some of the others out

Jon Miller

	15-08-2002 07:25									#34
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To comment on author's already mentioned.

If you like multi-volume Space Operas, then by all means dive into Brin, Banks, and Hamilton. Brin is the most accessible, Banks is the most learned and literary, while Hamilton is the fastest paced. I thought Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy far, far superior to Brin's Uplift universe, but Bank's Culture is in a league of it's own. Iain M. Banks is the only person I know who has come up with a workable Communist society: his Culture is one where machines do all the work, leaving all the sentient creatures their entire lives to find and develop their own meaning. Communism will work well in any civilization where the technology is to a point where anything is there for the asking.

Brin (imho) has serious problems with his Uplift universe, but I'm not going into them here... I've done it enough so that some Apolytoners here probably don't want to read the same complaint for the 12th time.

If you like fluff, give Turtledove a whirl, but be forewarned: you are not going to find deep thoughts and well-written prose here! I devour the mans work like a salt-junkie devours potato chips: I know they're not good for me, but oh! They taste so good!

Vernor Vinge is wonderful, especially his A Deepness in the Sky which I consider superior to A Fire Upon the Deep. DitS is considered a "sequel" of sorts to FutD, but it isn't really: It is set in the same universe, but is thousands of years prior to the events in FutD and deals with a part of the galaxy the beings in FutD wouldn't have dared enter for fear of becoming stupid. There is a certain weary sadness that you will feel upon finishing DitS even though the good guys "win."

Stay away from Timothy Zahn: he writes boyish books for boys. "Icarus Hunt" read just like a Star Wars script treatment - by page 10 I was like "so you're Han Solo, you're Chewbacca, and who was it that reminded me of C3PO?" Ugh. You can (and should) do better.

	15-08-2002 07:37									#35
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Wraith already mentioned my favorite (Heinlein), but I'd also highly recommend Spider Robinson.

	15-08-2002 07:40									#36
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I am a big van of Vinge and got one of his short story collections (read both of the ones you mentioned)

I was starved for reading once and read Zahn's Starwars books (which are suppose to be the best), they were readible but not that great

I did not like the one Turtledove I read

Brin in decent

I liked the one Banks I read (Player of Games)

I am a big fan of Cherryh (have read most everything by her)

now that you listed them I think I may have read one of Robert J. Sawyer's

I liked Guy Gavariel Kay but cannot read to many of his in a row

I did not like the Mars trilogy (or I bounced off the first book when I was trying to read it, long ago)

Jon Miller

	15-08-2002 07:43									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Anything by Rush Limbaugh. Oh wait, that's Fantasy, sorry...

It depends on what the meaning of is...is.

	15-08-2002 08:17									#38
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Lord of Light by Roger Zelany (sp) best sci-fi ever

	15-08-2002 09:16									#39
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I love that book (although I am not sure if it is best SciFi ever..)

(there is two Zs in his last name I beleive)

I discovered him a couple years back and have read everything I could find by him

Jon Miller

	15-08-2002 09:27									#40
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Phillip K. **** - The one I read most recently was Clans of the Alphane Moon, but I think everything he writes is golden.

	15-08-2002 09:32									#41
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quote: Kim Stanley Robinson is also a good author, notable for his Martians trilogy. Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars.

Yes. I'm just finishing up Blue Mars and I enjoyed this series immensely. I also liked his The Years of Rice and Salt so much I went and made a civ3 scenario of it.

	15-08-2002 10:04									#42
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Ya Guy Gavariel Kay's books seem very similar to each other. Although his best has to be the Fionavar Tapestry.

	15-08-2002 10:14									#43
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Neal Stephenson's books 'Snow Crash' and 'The Diamond Age' are great sci-fi books

I also give the big thumbs up to Peter F. Hamilton, though his otherwise brilliant Nights Dawn trilogy does feature a totaly lame ending (I think his editor told him to stop writing )

Last edited by Case on 15-08-2002 at 10:20

	15-08-2002 10:17									#44
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Yes (I own both), but he is somewhat crappy on endings (especially Diamond Age).

Jon Miller

	15-08-2002 10:17									#45
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If you're into 1,500+- pages of pain and angst, you could do far worse than Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap series.

	15-08-2002 10:20									#46
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I liked that one too (I like all of Donaldson's stories). Don't feel the need to read it in the near future either (the ending was alright, but I Think I liked the middle best).

Jon Miller

	15-08-2002 10:43									#47
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How about William Gibson? Burning Chrome is an anthology by Gibson and Bruce Sterling (some of the stories) that would make a great introduction. Neuromancer is Gibson's classic. Yeah, I will be surprised if you haven't read any of Gibson but he wasn't mentioned...

Heinlein wrote a great book called Friday or you could go farther back and look for the Heche saga by Pohl. In that same general time as the Heche books was the Beserker series by Fred Saberhagen. It's been a long time since I read any of those books but I have fond memories. I understand that Saberhagen's Lost Swords series is pretty good but I haven't read any of them...

Hey, let us know what you found and if it was any good. Peace...

	15-08-2002 11:42									#48
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A few others nobody seems to have mentioned.

Alfred Bester - The Stars My Destination (aka Tiger!Tiger!), The Demolished Man.

Cordwainer Smith - anything he wrote

Poul Anderson - Tau Zero

Samuel Delany - Dhalgren, Nova, Babel-17

Keith Roberts - Pavane

Daniel Keyes - Flowers for Algernon

Hal Clement - Needle

Lois Bujold - The Vorkosigan series

	15-08-2002 11:43									#49
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I'm currently reading The Boat of a Million Years - Poul Anderson. He's a good one.

The City and the Stars - Arthur C. Clarke, great book, great author.

	15-08-2002 14:59									#50
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Harry Harrison's Bill the galactic hero series is awesome i recommend it to anyone who enjoys not so hardcore sci-fi.

	15-08-2002 16:07									#51
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A few that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

Gordon Dickson (rest his soul)
His Dorsai books are excellent. Plus, he has written many... many stand alone novels worth reading.

If you are into military history...
There is a series written by Eric Flint and David Drake that is a must read.
The Belisarius series: with "An Oblique Approach" being the first book.
It's fast paced, well written, and makes you laugh out loud. Very entertaining.

	15-08-2002 16:24									#52
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Frank Herbert's Dune is fantastic. The many sequels and prequels I find less so.

If you're intrigued by the prospect of alternate history crossed with science ficiton, try the Worldwar series by Harry Turtledove. They're large books (600 pages plus) but quite fast-moving.

	15-08-2002 16:32									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The Belisarius series: with "An Oblique Approach" being the first book. It's fast paced, well written, and makes you laugh out loud. Very entertaining.

You can download the first 3 books in the series (legally) from the Baen Free Library.

http://www.baen.com/library/

	15-08-2002 17:37									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns quote: I read a book by Peter F Hamilton (The Reality Dysfunction), I hated it intensly after 500 pages... I have read the entire trilogy, and it has become one of my favourites of all-time. It does get a bit weird at about page 500, but is definately worth sticking with.

I have no problems with the weirdness, I just hate the main characters... Especially Joshua Calvert, the egoistic bastard

I canīt relate to any of the characters in the book, therefore it makes it uninteresting to read. I had the same problem with the books about Ender Wiggins, I didnīt care if the characters lived or died...

	15-08-2002 17:39									#55
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The rest of the trilogy isn't for you then.

	15-08-2002 17:42									#56
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Nope, I actually bought all three books at first, when I put down the first book in disgust I returned the following two to the book store and bought some good ole Pratchett

	15-08-2002 18:08									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler A few months ago, I re-read Joe Haldeman's The Forever War, the first sci-fi novel to win both the Hugo and the Nebula Awards. It's still a darn good read.

I hated that book. I have never read anther thing from Haldeman.

	15-08-2002 18:14									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred I hated that book. I have never read anther thing from Haldeman.

Well... many people would disagree with you. There is a good reason why Forever War won the Nebula and Hugo. Now, I would agree that the last book he wrote in that series isn't worth the money

You should try some of his other books. He is both a good poker player, and a good writer. Joe is a nice guy too

	15-08-2002 18:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Well... many people would disagree with you.

Obviously or it wouldn't have won a Hugo. I still didn't like it. I dislike the, every single human is a clone of two single people idea, so much I couldn't like the novel. I suppose he has written better since. Sure hope so.

Some books I hate for philosphical reasons and The Forever War is one. Just as I hated Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. In both cases I thought humanity lost in the end but I was supposed to pretend that a major tagedy was a triumph of some sort. I can't pretend that hard.

	15-08-2002 18:29									#60
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Yeah... different strokes for different folks. I've also hated some of the more acclaimed SF novels. I vote for the Hugos most years... and my selections don't often win (I did vote for The Forever War)