15-08-2002 19:50									#1
	Term Limit Plans Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here are the different options that should have been offered in the original poll... listed in order of being posted in the UN Constitution thread

Crisler plan:

quote: All positions shall have a term limit of 2 terms. This means that no one may server in a position for more than two terms in a row. After serving their two terms the person in question may not run for that position again for at least two terms. When having held a position as one of the Directors, you may freely run for any other position you choose at the next election, with the exception of the Commissioner. The Commissioner is limited from holding any other public office for the same length of time as the number of terms he has just completed as Commissioner. (In this way others get a chance to take positions of leadership) Also, when a Commissioner is not eligable for office, has completed two terms, or decides not to run for a second term. The Party of that Commissioner may NOT dominate a candidate for the office of Commissioner. (In this way we ensure a more well balanced political environment, we thus spread out the leadership of the colony. If for any reason a Commissioner is able to hold a total of 4 times, the office of Commissioner then he is unable to run for any public office again. He is retired from Public Service by the Colony. A citizen may not hold the office of Director (any director) longer than 2 terms in a row. In the term following the two served terms, he is not eligible to nominate himself as a Director candidate. A citizen may not hold the office of Commissioner longer than two terms in a row. In the term immediately following the two terms, he is not eligible for any government positions.

Leland plan:

quote: So, it could be possible for someone to go from Director to Commissioner, but not vice versa, making the effective maximum duration of governmental service 4 terms. Unless he gets elected as Alpha Talent at some point. Anyway, I don't think that the same people hogging the government seats over and over again will be a problem (after all, it can be made an election issue by their opponents), at least not big enough to warrant very complex restrictions.

MrWhereItsAt Plan:

quote: Term limits A nice idea, but soon enough we will have a serious problem finding willing candidates. In the Civ3 game we are near to electing our SMC for the third time in a row; after this he is restricted from that position for the next term. However, no-one wants to take his place, so I am proposing what we adpoted in the Civ2 game: No candidate may be elected for a certain position/any position more than [3] times consecutively unless there are no alternative candidates. This way we preferentially get the new guy in, but in the case of not having any such guy, we can actually keep playing. I think this would work here, and is better than the Commissioner having to delegate, or the VP taking over that position, which are alternatives.

GePap Plan:

quote: I say NO to any type of term limit whatsoever (preferential rues for new guys, as MWIA suggested are a different matter): term limits are a way of saying that the elctorate (us) can't be tursted, is lazy, is stupid, is incapable, is unenergetic, so forth, enough to keep the smae people for ever without question. It also brings up the issue of the best person: what iof we elect the best perso for a position, period? should not the person that has proven, by service, that they are very good, stay there as long as no one else proves, by argument or service, that they are capable of holding the job?

FlameFlash plan:

quote: Since term limits seem to be the only seriously mentioned part of the constitution so far I'd like to see us try and get back on track. Some good ideas have been mentioned, especially between MrWhereItsAt & GePap. How about a compromise between the two? Certainly there needs to be the opportunity for everybody to hold every position (OOC) after all this is just a game(/OOC) however when the people require stable leadership, through times of war, for instance, leadership in at least US history has remained in place even though the President went past the two term traditional limit. Of course, we also have to remember that the provision wasn't even instated until after somebody stayed in for more than two terms. Why not follow what worked within history? Follow GePap's advice and trust the People for now (both the canidates and the normal citizens), however if we see that one canidate sits in a commissioner seat or director seat for too long (more than the traditional two terms) we can then address the issue of stopping it then.

Zakharov VII Plan:

quote: About term limits...I'm for rules that give a slight edge to the underdog...what I'm thinking, for example, would be that a "veteran" (two term) Comissioner would have to win a majority, not just a plurality, to serve a third/fourth/etc. term. For example, imagine Crisler is retained next term, and then for the next (possibly Crisler's 3rd term) it's Crisler vs. A vs. B. If Crisler has 11 votes, A 8, and B 6, then A would win because Crisler doesn't have a majority with only 44% of the votes. Good things about this (at least to me)...as seen in the above example, Crisler has a very difficult time winning a third term (despite getting more votes than anyone else). However, if we're in the middle of a very, very difficult war and Crisler is doing well, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that Crisler could win a majority. Problems, of course, come up if two or more veterans are also running...say Crisler and A are each going for their third term, with B trying again. If Crisler gets 12 votes (48%), A 10 votes (40%), and B 3 votes (12%), it would be rather absurd for B to win (which, under the above rules, he would since neither veteran has a majority). And this rule is no help when there are only two candidates, but it's an example of the kind of flexible rule I'd like.

And then the ones updated from the original poll:
Added "3" in place of "xxx" what was original in MrWhereItsAt's plan.

This poll will remain open for the official three days.

	15-08-2002 20:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This is a (hopefully) shorter version of the above, encapsulating just the various plan's viewpoints as I understand them. No phwof, just points. If any of this is inaccurate, let me know and I'll update it.

Crisler's Plan
- two consecutive term limit

- after holding a position for two consecutive terms, that person may not hold the position until after two terms

-after having been a Director once, you may run for any position except for Commissioner

-the Commissioner may not hold any other position for as long as they have just been Commissioner

-the previous Commissioner's party may not table another candidate for Commissioner (except the previous Commissioner) until after another party's candidate has become Commissioner

-a poster who is Commissioner 4 times may not run for any position again

Leland's Plan
??? Are you basically endorsing Crisler's plan?

MrWhereItsAt's Plan
-3 consecutive term time limit extended indefinitely if and only if there are no other candidates for a position

GePap's Plan
-no term limits

-some rule giving preference to new candidates (ie candidates that haven't held that position before)

FlameFlash's Plan
-2 term limits in general, with scrutinised exceptions

-allowing a candidate to run a third time will be discussed at the time - this allows for keeping wartime leaders in whilst they are needed

Zakharov VII's Plan
-no term limits

-preferential rule for new candidates: a second term candidate would need not just a winning number of votes but an outright majority of votes cast to be reelected.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 15-08-2002 at 20:56

	15-08-2002 20:26									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for putting that list together, it probably is more helpful than mine, but cut/paste is easier to do when at work.

Edit: My plan's spirit has now been captured... thanks.

If I understood Leland's correctly, he called for just being allowed to hold government positions for four terms (correct me if I'm wrong.)

Last edited by FlameFlash on 15-08-2002 at 21:06

	15-08-2002 20:30									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i havent voted because i dont have time now but with one do i have to vote for wirth 2 terms and then 1 term rest?

	15-08-2002 20:38									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Not sure I understood your question DBTS... could you clarify?

	15-08-2002 20:54									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

never mind i will look at it when i come back from sports this evening

	15-08-2002 20:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I don't think any of the above features such a plan. The closest is Crisler's two term limit, then a two term break from holding a position.

FlameFlash - changed my summary of your idea - better?

	15-08-2002 21:07									#8
	Tired of ads?

MWIA... many thanks. (See edit above)

	16-08-2002 01:21									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm split between the MWIA and FlameFlash plans...not voting yet.

	16-08-2002 10:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm against term limits. What if you have a really good leader? And in democracy games a corrupt leader can't change things to ensure they keep getting elected (Australians - Joh Bjelke-Petersen ).