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Straybow
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SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:21
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First, my platform (nothing impressive):
Athlon 850 1˝ yrs old, 128M (100MHz bus)
OEM 8M video card c. 1998, 1024x768 (usually 24-bit color)
crappy OEM 17" monitor c. 1998 (color guns out of spec)
replacement needed (donations accepted)
Biggest non-gameplay problem: cursor control
Cursor tended to hop around instead of smoothly moving; it seems the system is bogged down. This can happen even when nothing much is going on anywhere on the map. Mouse clicks are "missed" by the poll. Cursor would not instantly change to the appropriate type when over friendly unit/bldg [box], open ground (green), target (red).
Some things were independent of load but just as quirky. When a unit is selected sometimes cursor would change to arrow while over open ground for no reason; clicking would not get any response from unit. Neither range nor obstacles were a factor. The tiles which were "unavailable" would not change for a given unit while it remained stationary, but an adjacent stationary unit would have an entirely different pattern of unavailable tiles.
I spent an hour twiddling with this. Sometimes all adjacent tiles were unavailable. Sometimes a large clump of tiles a short distance away. Sometimes small clumps here and there. Sometimes after the unit moved the pattern would change, other times it seemed not. Quite maddening.
Second non-gameplay related problem: bottom of screen
The bottom inch of screen (downward from roughly at the middle of the scroll arrows at the bottom of the sidebar) is not redrawn properly. When the map is scrolled up from the edge of the screen it leaves chunks behind; moving units leaving frational images often jiggle as though between frames. When the bottom is above the edge of the screen the cursor leaves flickering ghosts as it moves. Shots travel well below the bottom edge of the map all the time and a little ways off the other edges sometimes (and the program is probably wasting time checking for hits, too).
Third non-gameplay problem: floating fires and harvester dock
Sometimes when a structure is on fire the fire appears when the structure is off the edge of the screen. If the screen is scrolled it drifts in place until the structure catches up to it, as it were. The harvester ramp/dock on the spice refinery does the same thing; until the bldg catches up to the floater the bldg dock (and harvester, if idle) is Imperial Pink (the floater is always the correct faction color). Mostly it happens at the left edge of the screen, but it sometimes happens on every edge.
Minor non-gameplay problem: map scrolling waaaaayyy toooooo sssssllllllooooooowwww
Gameplay related problems
I'll assume that unit/bldg status data for the sidebar is in the works, as well as other features from the original such as building repair. That, and everything was free and there was no need to collect spice. I fiddled only with skirmish, maybe that's why. I don't know if your campaign works at all, or has the full roster of buildings and units, etc.
 Pathfinding (always a weakness in RTS) I don't recall that Dune2 pathfinding was this bad. Yeah, the unit movement was squirrely in large groups, but this is more like pathlosing than pathfinding.
 Units should be harder to pin In Dune2 only units with more firepower could pin a vehicle; infantry required equal firepower (soldier pins soldier, squad pins squad or soldier). It took frontal attack to pin (for the most part). Heavy tanks, harvesters, and Sardaukar were never pinned and would always move to the objective.
Only rockets or hv tanks could pin tanks, (I believe it took a "solid" hit to pin a tank). Light vehicles were fairly easy to pin. Pinned units could withdraw (but the vehicle control AI didn't make effective effective use of reverse gear).
 Balky unit response Many times units would not respond to commands. They'd say "Moving out" or whatever but do nothing. Especially when it came to advancing close to the enemy base (cowards). For a group order the balkiness resulted in usually only three units responding to the order (except for move orders well away from enemy units).
 At first I thought this was your way of programming in the Ordos' special powers. I had little trouble attacking Harkonnen, and he little trouble moving into my base area. Then I switched my focus to Imperial base and it happened there, too. I did notice a little bit of this when attacking Harkonnen, and attributed it to the cursor problems. Perhaps I was incorrect.
Friendly fire In Dune2 it was possible and even likely for friendly fire to hit units and buildings. I couldn't tell if this was happening in D2redux or not. More on this in the section below.
Gameplay-related suggestions
Menu kludge There is such a things as copying too closely from the original. For example, most Westwood RTS games have the menu scrolling at the bottom of the sidebar, where the slightest overshoot with the mouse results in undesired scrolling of the map. Put them at the top of the menu, or better yet, do away with them entirely. I believe Dune2 had a window separate from the menu that showed what was being produced. Then use smaller icons for the choices available (in two columns if necessary).
C&C stuff The improvements were kinda obvious ones and shouldn't be that hard to do (famous last words): "health" bar, grouping hot-keys. What else I can't remember.
Hot-key orders have common unit orders use hot keys: return to base, return to repair bay, sentry, guard (return fire but do not close on enemy), etc.
Hot-key to (or tab between) construction menus Obvious. Hate to hunt down the construction yard or whatever. Hitting hot-key after the "construction complete" announcement should take you to the appropriate yard and "load" the cursor for structure placement. Otherwise hot-key takes you to first idle or nearest to completion or something.
Tab for other structures functions Also, after clicking on Repair or Salvage, tabbing should take you to the building with the highest damage (unless you visited it recently and tabbed away without repairing).
Harder stuff that RTS games don't seem think about
Few accidental hits If a unit fires on a target and a unit gets in the way there should not be much chance that the intervening unit will be hit. Terrain is never perfectly level, projectiles arc in flight, and only a harvester would be so big as to easily shield a target unit. Same for over/undershooting: projectile will likely strike the ground a short distance past the target, or in front of the target, on a miss.
Targeting structures This isn't WWII tech, so how can you miss? Almost never except at long range. Variable damage effected by range, sure. Again, only a harvester would be big enough to substantially obscure a target building (only if it moves immediately adjacent to the building exactly on the line of sight, after the unit has fired; good luck). In this case, overshooting a unit in front of the building will likely hit the building.
Edit: minor corrections
Last edited by Straybow on 28-08-2002 at 19:02
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neonext
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i wish i got these kind of responses when the game was still in development...
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neonext
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i got most of all the bugs you listed, and i fixed about half of them before i moved onto my 3rd project
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neonext
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i never released the update and i don't plan on it. i may re-do the entire game someday with multiplayer support similar to how i'm redoing civiliza
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neonext
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i find single-click interfaces very convenient in rts games actually
as for lack of advertising, i had discussions in forums and so forth, but only on a dune-related site. dune 2 has nothing to do with civilization, and doesn't belong here
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16-08-2002 01:02
"never released the update and don't plan on it" Uh, how hard can it be?? (Ask a foolish question…)
"re-do… similar to… civiliza" Yes, it would be cool to do away with the side column and handle the build menus via right-click on the appropriate structure. Unit clocks and optional prompts when a task is completed would greatly reducing the clickfest aspect.
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