16-08-2002 10:32									#1
	Inbetween Despotism and Commuism? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'd like to add an extra government to my game, but I dont know what it is or what it should have.

Basically, i want a government that has lower corruption than a despotism, but has the ability to poprush rather than pay for things. you know, somethign to step into (despotism->THIS->communism) sort of like (despotism->republic->democracy), although many people are against democracy .

i used to have Fascism (sp?) installed, but it was unbalancing and it came right alongside communism. I'd want something in the late ancient era or the early mideval era. Perhaps Feudalism could be made a government?

Would it have communist-like corruption due to the manorial system? is there a way to make a "more corrupt"communal corruption system? I'll check the editor tomorrow. I'm tired and ranting .

think it over and lemme know.

	16-08-2002 12:17									#2
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Absolutism/Feudalism.

Many Feudal systems relied more on the power of the whip rather than the power of the purse. Monarchy is more akin to the later British institution rather than the medieval French.

	16-08-2002 14:39									#3
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If I modded a gov there I would put in a Republic that had military support like Monarchy.

The eternal decision - Monarchy or Republic

To balance it out you could restrict the science rate and call it Theocracy or something ... but it can't go below 50

	16-08-2002 15:34									#4
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Feudalism sounds good to me. The sort of monarchy that generally had the power spread around in the hands of many nobles rather than centred strongly in the king. I'm not sure that it would have fixed rates of corruption though. That sounds more probable in a theocracy or whatever you would call the ancient chinese system where a huge area could be ruled but bribery was endemic (the name eludes me).

	16-08-2002 16:30									#5
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England still has part of our old system, the house of lords! They get to make decisions and they're only there cuz they fathers were! I realy want to kill those guys!

	16-08-2002 18:49									#6
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quote: England still has part of our old system, the house of lords! They get to make decisions and they're only there cuz they fathers were! I realy want to kill those guys!

Most of the hereditory peirs are gone. Most of them are now appointed by the Goverment. So in our case they just do what ever Tony wants. The house of Lord now is not what it was ten years ago. There just a rubber stamp for the Giverment, either of them

	16-08-2002 19:52									#7
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Yes replacing awkward old toffs who would object to anything that didn't fit with the way their grandparents did things with a bunch of toadying party donors keen to rubber stamp anything that the government wants is hardly an improvement. We need a second House, and the Peers do a better job at times than some people give them credit for, but this whole half baked attempt at reform is making matters worse.

	16-08-2002 20:53									#8
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I'm back to re-ask a question:

is it possible to make a more corrupt communal government?

i could always lower the mil police level / draft rate / support costs but it's still the same corruption...

i'm going to make a rate cap of 60% i guess.

	17-08-2002 02:36									#9
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How about the option of either paying or whipping while a monarchy?

You'd probably have to have more unhappyness due to whipping though.

	17-08-2002 07:54									#10
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uber I that picture near your name. Homer is funny.


I havent mastered the game yet. My expierence with Communism was a bad one. Lots of waste. I hate that. Is there anyway to fight it?

	17-08-2002 21:35									#11
	Re: Inbetween Despotism and Commuism? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX I'd like to add an extra government to my game, but I dont know what it is or what it should have. Basically, i want a government that has lower corruption than a despotism, but has the ability to poprush rather than pay for things. you know, somethign to step into (despotism->THIS->communism) sort of like (despotism->republic->democracy), although many people are against democracy . i used to have Fascism (sp?) installed, but it was unbalancing and it came right alongside communism. I'd want something in the late ancient era or the early mideval era. Perhaps Feudalism could be made a government? Would it have communist-like corruption due to the manorial system? is there a way to make a "more corrupt"communal corruption system? I'll check the editor tomorrow. I'm tired and ranting . think it over and lemme know.

How about an Oligarchy? Power is shared, unlike a Monarchy but, but only within a small group of people. The ancient Greek system could be described in that way. Only select males were allowed to have a say in desicions. And no, there's only the one setting for communal corruption.

	17-08-2002 21:46									#12
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Well, the ancient greek system wasn't so much a select group of males, but more every male except those who didn't meet the requirements, ie wasn't a slave, was old enough, and stuff like that. It was, I guess, limited suffrage.

And if you're gonna have a religious gov't with limited science, please don't make it Theocracy. Perhaps Fundamentalism, but not theocracy. Thocracy in no way inhibits science, except of course in certain cases where moral values take precedence. And more improtantly, Theocracy isn't really a religion, but more a subject, kinda like geography or physics.....

Last edited by Switch on 17-08-2002 at 21:58

	17-08-2002 23:14									#13
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I had an idea for a Imperialistic Dictatorship government that can come with Feudalism. However, you can't rush anything, but if you want to take a look here are the stats.

Prerequisite: Feudalism
Corruption: Problematic (Monarchy)
Rate Cap: 5
Work Rate: 1
Assimilation: 0
Draft Limit: 4
Military Police: 1
Hurry Production: No
War Weariness: No
Requires Maintenance: No
Standard Tile Penalty: Yes
Standard Trade Bonus: No
Unit Support Costs: NONE!
Diplomats Are: Conscript
Spies Are: Conscript
Immune To: Sabotage Production

Having free buildings and free units is nice, but not being able to rush, research/entertain 100% and can't assimilate other people really hurts. Also the diplomats and spies are very bad (the idea is that your oppressed people are so busy maintaining their own military and buildings there is no time for them to learn what is takes to be a good diplomate and spies.

Switching out of this government tends to make my people unhappy for the cruel treatment I forced them to go under then. Still, I like it, very interesting government configuration.

	18-08-2002 01:48									#14
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quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO Well, the ancient greek system wasn't so much a select group of males, but more every male except those who didn't meet the requirements, ie wasn't a slave, was old enough, and stuff like that. It was, I guess, limited suffrage.

So if that's not an Oligarchy, then what is? The Spartan system is a good example. Very few members of that society were allowed to have any power. And everyone else was little more than a vassal of the ruling class. They relied heavily on slave labour, so that the male members could devote themselves to the "arts of war". The females weren't even allowed to raise their own male children, they were placed in a barracks as soon as they were old enough to fight.

	18-08-2002 20:23									#15
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Lets hope that with PTW there are some new types .
Any news on that .

	18-08-2002 20:37									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SABRA Lets hope that with PTW there are some new types . Any news on that .

Just make your own, it's not that hard to do. Now that the gov specific buildings are working properly, there's lots of things you can do to differeniate between various types. I doubt very much if Firaxis will be adding anymore.

	19-08-2002 11:14									#17
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Theocracy is a form of govm. Theology is a subject

	23-08-2002 02:29									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Unit Support Costs: NONE!

This would be the best government for warmonger like me but I often thought that there must be something in between Communism and Despotism which are both too strict and to inflexible we would need a more flexible one with not so strict pros- and cons and Feudalism would be ideal.

	23-08-2002 03:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX I'm back to re-ask a question: is it possible to make a more corrupt communal government?

I've looked for ways to do the opposite: make a LESS corrupt communal government. But there's no way to adjust it in the editor.

There are other ways to edit down corruption in general, but I think you're looking to only adjust the commie communal rate (like I was). Its just not possible in the current version of the editor.

	23-08-2002 03:52									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Galvatron This would be the best government for warmonger like me but I often thought that there must be something in between Communism and Despotism which are both too strict and to inflexible we would need a more flexible one with not so strict pros- and cons and Feudalism would be ideal.

Well, the fact you can't hurry, larger than normal amount of population needed to draft, 50% research and citizens in captured cities CAN'T assimilate, it's best for that 10 turn war. I've played the game through with this government, and it is hard for me a builder, to maintain a government and still defend myself.

One of the big problems I found after defeating two civs at the same time (France to the west, Russia to north east), is that make sure you decommission most of your units... unless you like the spend the next 3 turns making -1000 because of unit costs before you relize you are broke!

	23-08-2002 04:06									#21
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I think that an absolutist government (a la Maria Theresa or Frederick II) would be a great addition for the game. I think that it's important to distinguish between the various forms of monarchy. Their governments were extremely different from those of the tsars and those of more liberal monarchs in the west. I would like to see governments based on more autocratic visions of monarchy and then another one with more progressive monarchs.

Also, really wanted to see a government of city-states like a confederation (like the HRE or Hanseatic League perhaps?) I really want various economic systems to complement the governments, but that would be too much to hope for.

	23-08-2002 05:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by jsw363 Also, really wanted to see a government of city-states like a confederation (like the HRE or Hanseatic League perhaps?) I really want various economic systems to complement the governments, but that would be too much to hope for.

That would require the game to be rewritten I believe.

	23-08-2002 08:03									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Falconius I've looked for ways to do the opposite: make a LESS corrupt communal government. But there's no way to adjust it in the editor. There are other ways to edit down corruption in general, but I think you're looking to only adjust the commie communal rate (like I was). Its just not possible in the current version of the editor.

It would be really nice to have two selectors for gov corruption. One to select centralized or communal, and another to select the degree.