16-08-2002 17:26									#1
	Why was the Eiffel Tower removed Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I just curiouse why in Civ 3 the Eiffel Tower was not included. Because it seems a little stange the more modren a wonder is the more lickley it is going to be American. Pentagon, Wall street and so on. What happenned to the other non American wonders like the Eiffel Tower

	16-08-2002 17:38									#2
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most likely that's because most potential buyers are american.

- Wall Street should be fuji index
- pentagon should be british secret service

Anyway, I don't really concider the Eiffel Tower to be a world wonder. It's 'just' a tower. A good one, but there are plenty like those around the world.

	16-08-2002 18:32									#3
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Anyway, I don't really concider the Eiffel Tower to be a world wonder. It's 'just' a tower. A good one, but there are plenty like those around the world.

Well the Eiffel Tower is not just ANY tower. It was the FIRST man-made object to reach a height of 300 meters, and the first tall object to be made entirely out of steel girders--previous towers and obelisks were made of stone (think how massive the Pyramids are!). Like the Hoover Dam, it was an engineering feat--it showed that structures of unprecedented height could be built using only thin steel bars.

If the Eiffel Tower were added to CivIII, I would give it the Industrious and Commercial traits--first of all becaue that would trigger Golden Age for France, but also because as an engineering feat it is Industrious, and as a tourist attraction and World's Fair exhibit (it was built for the World's Fair), it would be Commercial.

	16-08-2002 18:37									#4
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy - Wall Street should be fuji index - pentagon should be british secret service

I can only disagree here...Nobody knows about the fuji index (What it is), it sounds like it has something to do with pictures, maybe a photo album! And if the word british is included, it can't be good!!!

Back to topic: I really miss the Eifel Tower too, would be nice to see it return, to bad the current editor can't make it the same as in Civ2. If the editor just gave a lot of more possibilites for wonders, then it I (or someone else) would make it a wonder, it's a little boring, that the editor can't make wonders with effects that haven't been used yet...

	16-08-2002 18:58									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ijuin Well the Eiffel Tower is not just ANY tower. It was the FIRST man-made object to reach a height of 300 meters, and the first tall object to be made entirely out of steel girders--previous towers and obelisks were made of stone (think how massive the Pyramids are!). Like the Hoover Dam, it was an engineering feat--it showed that structures of unprecedented height could be built using only thin steel bars.

Don't forget that as ugly as almost everyone initially considered it to be, and the fact that it was originally planned as a temporary structure for an international exhibition, not a permanent part of the Paris skyline, its a minor wonder that the thing is even still around.

	16-08-2002 19:15									#6
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I think it should have been included in the game

	16-08-2002 21:16									#7
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Remember the effect it had in Civ2? Made all the AI civs polite towards you.

So in MP it would be more useless than the Great Wall.

	16-08-2002 21:28									#8
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The pentagon should enable your spies to know everything about everybody. They just don't know which 2% is accurate so they can't tell you anything for certain. The British Secret Service should allow you to find out lots of really cool stuff, then give it to at least one other nation on the following turn

The Eiffel tower has got just as much right to be a modern wonder as many other things. Nobody nominate "The Millennium Dome" though, I beg you

	16-08-2002 22:51									#9
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hmm, the millenium ome :

cost to build : 5000 shields
upkeep : 350 gpt
culture : -10
happiness : city-5/ continent-2. others civ+1 (laughing their socks off)

	16-08-2002 23:01									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

eiffel tower's reputation aide may be a bit more useful in this game

	16-08-2002 23:48									#11
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Funny thing to remember on the subject of modern wonders being American - in the old days, in Russian localisation of Civ I, Appolo program was called "Vostok program" and Manhattan Project was "Kurchatov project". And some other nice local thingies too. Though the most of the thing itself was made via the computer translator program, so it was hard to understand anything unless you played and English version before

	17-08-2002 00:23									#12
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quote: Originally posted by des-esseintes Remember the effect it had in Civ2? Made all the AI civs polite towards you. So in MP it would be more useless than the Great Wall.

Not to mention that this effect isn't a bit realistic. No one is polite to French people, and vice versa, of course.

	17-08-2002 04:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Purple Not to mention that this effect isn't a bit realistic. No one is polite to French people, and vice versa, of course.

*Chuckles* My French teacher in high school used to like telling us that from their perspective(She was from France) us Merkins are the rude ones, always saying "Hello, how are you?" to each other as a shallow greeting with no expectation of a real answer or interest in the content thereof.

Whereas, we were informed, in France, if you said that to a friend or associate you met on the street, it meant you actually wanted to stop and talk with them for a while and find out how they were doing. Otherwise, you would Politely not acknowledge their existance unless they acknowledged yours first.

Go Figure.

On topic wise. If we could have a wonder put in to do the "Effiel Tower" effect, what would you want, if not the ET?

And as for the point Des-esseintes made about not being useful in MP, true it won't chance the play of human players, but if there are AIs still in a game it would affect them. And I suspect AIs may be a little harder to get rid of in Civ3 than they were in Civ2.

	17-08-2002 04:59									#14
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Why?? I have explained this before.

One of the ways the AI cheats is to screw the human UNJUSTLY with reputation hits, hits that last forever (which is absurd). I have many times been blamed for things I never did, or blamed for starting a war when in fact I was the victim of an attack.

As Eifel Tower (which I liked a lot in Civ 2 and want back) would be too difficult to incorporate into the Civ 3 cheating game code. Or so I assume.

	17-08-2002 07:13									#15
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If I'm correct ( ), don't the french hate the Eiffel Tower? Isn't there like a petition every now and then by the people of Paris to tear the thing down?

	17-08-2002 07:16									#16
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quote: Originally posted by des-esseintes Remember the effect it had in Civ2? Made all the AI civs polite towards you. So in MP it would be more useless than the Great Wall.

Reminds me of the UN in the Civ1 SNES game.

	17-08-2002 08:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 If I'm correct ( ), don't the french hate the Eiffel Tower? Isn't there like a petition every now and then by the people of Paris to tear the thing down?

At first they hated it, but I think its grown on them. It was supposed to have been torn down after the 1889 Paris Exposition ( I think) but its managed to stick around.


edit: Paris Expo not World's Fair