16-08-2002 21:03									#1
	Unrealistic payoff from a Civ Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm playing as the Babylonians on a huge map, 16 civs. I'm pretty much number 1 in the world . I offer nationalism to the number 2, the iroquios. They offer me world map, 30 gold, and 495 gold per turn!!! Now, they are doing well, but how could they be doing that well? Is the AI allowed to make offers it can't really back up? I'm not complaining about it in the game, it was a second golden age for me, but in principle they shouldn't be allowed to do that. THe only way I think they could do that would be for them to have no science or luxurie and to operate in defecit, which was the only way my civ could have pulled it off.

	16-08-2002 21:14									#2
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if memory serves me, i once had the russians offer me 780 gpt for a tech. at the time i was pulling in over 1000 myself so figured their economy could afford it.

	16-08-2002 21:42									#3
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that is hella ridonkulous, and I'm thankful it never happened to me. Sure, we all want to dominate our civs, but doing it through absurd tech-trading just doesn't seem right. The only possible answer is that the Iriquois have the other Civs paying lots of tribute to them (highly unlikely). If you want to keep the game alive, I'd counter the deal down to 100 or 200 per tern. But it's up to you.

	16-08-2002 22:31									#4
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I do think the civs bankrupt themselves royally. I notice whenever I start the royal trade-off (trading a new tech to all civs) i get good deals but the AI militaries become quite small. I found in games where I do little trading i do not do well; but in games in which I have made favourable gpt trades the AIs become walkovers.

Z

	16-08-2002 23:04									#5
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in the old un-patched game the AI could offer anything.

now they have SOME restrictions.

i'm sure they could afford it

	17-08-2002 00:58									#6
	Re: Unrealistic payoff from a Civ Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Wormwood I'm playing as the Babylonians on a huge map, 16 civs. I'm pretty much number 1 in the world . I offer nationalism to the number 2, the iroquios. They offer me world map, 30 gold, and 495 gold per turn!!! Now, they are doing well, but how could they be doing that well? Is the AI allowed to make offers it can't really back up? I'm not complaining about it in the game, it was a second golden age for me, but in principle they shouldn't be allowed to do that. THe only way I think they could do that would be for them to have no science or luxurie and to operate in defecit, which was the only way my civ could have pulled it off.

You will notice that when a civ makes an offer like that they usually pay a big price: their number of units gets smaller, their science practically stops, culture growth slows or declines relatively. I play on a huge map and usually have 500-2000 gpt in the last two ages without such deals and I have got over 3000 gpt with such deals. If I can manage my cities such that I can rake-in the gold each turn, I assume that occasionally the AI can too. Only some civ's seem to do it, they only do it for some tec's, they will often cancel other gpt deals shortly after, and usually will not do it consecutively.

	23-08-2002 02:33									#7
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Would be interesting to know if the AI just makes offers from the blue sky or are they really build up their economy the hard way like we do any suggestions we can observe the rise of a computer-civ?

	23-08-2002 20:48									#8
	Remove this text

Since my civ usually makes over 1500 golds per turn by the time I get Nationalism, I think AI would have no problem making 1000 GPT.