20-08-2002 21:25									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh What about the ability to trade units between civs/ gift units? Is this a possible addition? -FMK.

I'm working on this ability, and many others. For example: map interchange, contact interchange (if you know a civ that other player doesn't know), and more

But the first beta will only have three options: Gold, techs, Cease Fire/Peace/Alliance

	21-08-2002 00:49									#32
	The documentacion Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Here is the beta-version of the documentation. Unzip this in a folder and load the HTML web page

Attachment: manual.zip
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	21-08-2002 00:54									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

And here is the utility!

This ZIP is password-encrypted. I send the password to all my beta-tester!

I expect next beta can be public!

If you want to be a beta-tester now, please wrote me a PM

Unzip the folder and follow the manual (previous post)

Attachment: civ2dip.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	21-08-2002 01:00									#34
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Please remember

Before you think there's a problem (Altougth I think that the utility have many bugs), check

1) There is a correct RULES.TXT in the same folder that the .NET file

2) You make the offer after playing your move

3) You load the offer before playing your move

Thank you

	21-08-2002 15:56									#35
	Suffering from ads?

Hey Yaros, should we start a beta-testing PBEM game with all the beta testers?.

I supose you are waiting for more beta testers to start de beta-testing game.

	21-08-2002 16:39									#36
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My first contact with the utility:

> Manual.zip, descompressed, no problems.
- It is in English, OK, no problem, but remember guy, we will claim for you to translate (Te viamos a dar la bara pa' que lo hagas en Español cañí y olé).
- Error found in the credits, I think it is Henrik and not Hendrik.
- Ok, you have my real name in my profile from now.

> Civ2dip.zip, descompressed, no problems.
- I had to download and install the Java application mentioned in the manual, yes I am another poor PC user.
- Run the application. No problems
- Create a .net file playing a scenario from my own database.
- Try to make a barter without a password. Error, I need a password.
- Set and confirm the password. No problems
- Make a barter. Error, I forgot putting the rules.txt in the correct place, the program tell me efficiently. No problems. Perhaps the ability to correct the offers without cancel the barter should be a good idea, Yaros.
- I select a competitor, is curious I can select even those leaders I do not know in the game. It is sometimes difficult to know what leader and what Civ, perhaps the name of the civ near the name of the leader would make it clearer.
- Ok, the utility knows what I have so it restricts me only those advances I have developed, and the money I have. Make the offer.
- There is no embasy so I can demand whatever I want, but I do not know if the other can give me as much as I ask.
- Ok, so there is no use demanding treaties, they are included in the offer menu.
- Make the demand.
- Saving the file, no problems.
- But I have nobody to send the file, this is a test and not a formal offer for my real game, we need a new PBEM to Beta-test.

Now I am trying in a game with embassies to know if the utility recognises what everyone has.

Last edited by Kramsib on 21-08-2002 at 16:55

	21-08-2002 16:54									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Success, the utility recognises the embasies But there is a problem, the utility shows advances that we both have, it should be better if it only shows those advances we need from each other without comparing constantly what we have and what we don't.

Now I am trying to see the offer I have done entering as one of the other players.

Success. The offer has been viewed correctly. But If I can enter as other leader there is a big security problem. Even when I have set up passwords in the normal game.

Now I am setting up a more complicated test, I will use two beta-test games. The first is the Rome scenario everybody knows. The second is a Mod scenario with modified rules.txt to know if the utility support the changes. I hope I can show you the results soon.

Last edited by Kramsib on 21-08-2002 at 17:26

	21-08-2002 23:17									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thank you, Kramsib. You can start a PBEM game where you play all civs, so you can accept baters. It's what I do. I expect release a new beta soon. With his new beta, we'll start a PBEM

	21-08-2002 23:54									#39
	Support Apolyton

Could that beta include some sort of other way to launch the thing for mac?
Im having problems currently.

	22-08-2002 01:20									#40
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by yaroslav Thank you, Kramsib. You can start a PBEM game where you play all civs, so you can accept baters. It's what I do. I expect release a new beta soon. With his new beta, we'll start a PBEM

That is what I was thinking.

	22-08-2002 22:41									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Henrik Could that beta include some sort of other way to launch the thing for mac? Im having problems currently.

And I'm afraid; we will have more problems...

As you can read there:

http://developer.apple.com/java/faq

MAC OS IX will not support java beyond java 1.1.8. And I've used java 1.4

I'm working on a solution to this problem, but I think that is very bad from Apple to support Java only on MAC OS X.

I will post more about this problem tonigth

	22-08-2002 23:11									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm, now I will get my hands on Mac OS X soon enough, so I guess that wont be a problem (though it will probably take a while)...

	23-08-2002 00:57									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ummm. Then I must think if do or not do a new version only for MAC VIII and MAC IX. Perphas, if you put your hands on MAC OS X, I don't need to do that

	23-08-2002 01:57									#44
	Put an end to popups!

A new beta version if on the net!

You can download it in the new thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59779

This thread will remain open for discuss about first BETA

	29-08-2002 04:59									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yaroslav i have a question for you.Since i presume you are an experienced programmer ,would it be possible to implement a program for civ that would enable people to see the map overview and city information of a game that someone else is playing on his computer over the internet?

Believe me ,you would do a huge contribution to the civ community with it.

And if it would be in any case possible ,a program that allow multiple people to control one civ played on someone's computer? (server)

	29-08-2002 21:06									#46
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well... That info you are asking me for is stored on the saved files. I believe that a program that read the auto-save each turn and send this info over Internet to display on other computer will be not (very) dificult.

On the other hand, the server is much more dificult, because I don't know how to hack Civ2 in order to allow that

	14-09-2002 05:49									#47
	Re: The diplomacy mechanism Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by yaroslav How a player can know that a offer is to be trusted? And how a player (or a pair of players) can not cheat doing offers in others' name? I think that these problem can be solve with signature (password).

I think you can omit any anti-cheating mechanism. Cheating in PBEM is and always will be extremely easy (for example game reloading, editing rules.txt, removing opponent's "password" etc.). You must trust.

	14-09-2002 10:46									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Why make easier than it has to be Slowthinker?

	14-09-2002 14:28									#49
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Henrik,

It is so easy that you cannot make it easier. The right door of your car is missing: will you install a lock into the left door?

We have had a debate on CivFanatics:PBEM about this, but I can't post a link, because I can't get to the site last two days

	14-09-2002 16:26									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Perhaps it is easy to cheat, you said : "changing the rules.txt, reloading, ..., but, perhaps it is easy to detect it, when something strange happens that is becouse there is someone cheating, isn't he?

	14-09-2002 18:29									#51
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Kramsib,
Even after a detailed study of the game after its end you may have only a suspicion that the opponent won too much of battles (and he reloaded after bad results or changed rules.txt before the battle) or that he got the most valuable things from the huts (reloading) or that he revealed the map.
But you can't prove that.

And if the player would cheat reasonably and limitedly then you would have no suspicion.

But I can't imagine why a player would cheat ? He would loose all the entertainment from the game!

Last edited by SlowThinker on 14-09-2002 at 18:37

	14-09-2002 21:08									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: But I can't imagine why a player would cheat ? He would loose all the entertainment from the game!

Right

	16-09-2002 05:11									#53
	Put an end to popups!

The threads about cheating I mentioned are here:

BLACKLIST of PBEM Dropouts and PBEM FAQ. Both threads are locked now, they were locked after a murder committed due to that extremely stormy debate.

	16-09-2002 05:13									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thank you for your advice, SlowThinker. Also Scenario Leage Magazine covers the PBEM cheating

	16-09-2002 08:34									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thank you for the tip, just answered : Scenario League Magazine Issue #1 out now!