16-08-2002 23:44									#1
	PBEM: New proposal Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

after the recent discussions, here is my new proposal

1) the SL forum is merged with the Civ2-Creation one, moved under the civ2 category and renamed to Civ2-Creation/Scenario League

2) all pbem threads, including playtesting ones are done in a new Civ2-PBEM forum which is a normal forum, not a subforum of Civ2-MP

3) the spanish elit is free to play pbem with itself in hope that it will try in the future to trust other people too


so?

	17-08-2002 00:35									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't know about point 1. Even though the scenario's made here are for Civ2, it's obvious that St. Leo is trying to expand the community by including stuff about EU2, which would make it out of place under the Civ2 section. There might also be eventually Civ3 scenario designers.

I think the SLeague is fine where it, but you're the boss.

	17-08-2002 00:49									#3
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I think that's a fine idea Mark, makes everyone happy.

Well done.

	17-08-2002 01:42									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

i don't like the idea

	17-08-2002 02:14									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'll vote/comment once I see the overwhelming comment of opinion Seriously, your proposal seems relatively good. Except point 1: have SLeague stay here in hosted sites; maybe have the Civ2-Creation section link to here

	17-08-2002 03:55									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Point #1 I have to object to: As in the last discussion we had about closing the Sleague forum, my opinion is that SLeague should continue as a seperate forum and not merged or replacing civ2 creation because SLeague has a much wider mission which, as stated, can and will probably hop across platforms in the future.

Point #2 I agree with and want, but with the proviso that playtesting threads be allowed, or at least left to the moderators discretion.

Point #3 I have no opinion on.

Thanks Mark; I'm sure you'll do the right thing. Really you should just drop Civ2 creation anyway as everyone already comes here first or is quickly redirected. And since civ3 will soon support scenarios it leaves civ2 more and more redundant.

	17-08-2002 04:06									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Andrew Livings Point #1 I have to object to: As in the last discussion we had about closing the Sleague forum, my opinion is that SLeague should continue as a seperate forum and not merged or replacing civ2 creation because SLeague has a much wider mission which, as stated, can and will probably hop across platforms in the future.

eeeer sorry, but i heard this before. 3 years ago. in the time of ctp1. it still hasnt happened.

btw, there are some civ3 scenarios already out

	17-08-2002 17:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How about reversing number 1?

quote: 1) the SL forum is merged with the Civ2-Creation one, moved under the civ2 category and renamed to Civ2-Creation/Scenario League

1) Civ2-Creation is merged with the SL forum, stays where it is, renamed Scenario League/Civ2 Creation

Usually when you have a merger the bigger entity remains predominant.

Points 2 and 3 are OK with me.

	18-08-2002 02:29									#9
	Re: PBEM: New proposal Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MarkG 3) the spanish elit is free to play pbem with itself in hope that it will try in the future to trust other people too

I do like your decission but I must insist taht imo the reason to keep them in the Sp Forum should be that they are played in spanish, not that we only like to play among us (I'm pbeming at CFC ). I'd be more than happy if you move some of them to the new pbem forum.

	18-08-2002 02:40									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Markos, is it technically possible for you to make two labels (Civ2 - Creation and SLeague) for the same forum?

	18-08-2002 02:50									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

All three sound good to me, but I'm not really in the position to judge 2 and 3.

I think it's imperative that the SL is in the Civ2 section (or at least has a link there).

	18-08-2002 11:42									#12
	Got spare money?

Why not leave things as they are?

	18-08-2002 15:15									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

That sounds OK to me.
However, I don't see any reason for the Civ 2 creation board to remain in exhistance - all the civ 2 creation stuff has long since moved here or to the Civ 2/general Board.

	18-08-2002 22:53									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, it seems to me that the only concern for changing the name from SLeague is that newbies might not know where to go. Note the scattered posts in the Civ2- Creation forum where people ask a question, and the next few posts are the thread's originatior wondering why no one is posting.

Just then, a trusty and faithful SLeaguer steps up to point them here, where they might actually get a reply.

I don't really see the need for a Civ2 Creation forum, aside of the fact that a person new to the site whom is looking to create for Civ2 would naturally go there.
I agree that with merging, the larger entity should remain.


Does the name 'Scenario League' lead your mind to exclude other aspects of creation, like say, mapmaking or unit drawing etc? If you wanted to ask a q about mapmaking for Civ2, would you see a SLeague forum and skip over it not knowing that it really is a total creation type of thing? I am refering to newer visitors and such.

What about keeping SLeague where it is, and having it named:

Scenario League (Civ2 Creation)

This way, the name of the SLeague retains integrity, and the parenthesis explain to the uninitiated what goes on here.


Just my 3½ Euros...

-FMK.

	18-08-2002 23:14									#15
	Remove this text

Agree with FMK.

	19-08-2002 04:23									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

ditto

	19-08-2002 05:35									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG eeeer sorry, but i heard this before. 3 years ago. in the time of ctp1. it still hasnt happened.

Look again.
One of the first things Leo did when he was able to update the site was to open an EU2 section. It doesn't have much in it as yet but thats beside the point as EU2 hasn't really been out that long.
Perhaps he can include a Candle'Bre section too once that gets off the ground?

[Edit: and double ditto wrt FMKs suggestion ]

	19-08-2002 06:09									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The only reason I haven't added a few EU2 mods to the download section (yet) is that I am shy about spending Markos' bandwidth.

	19-08-2002 16:32									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

we cant have a forum in two categories

it would be out of place to have a civ2 forum outside of the civ2 category so i think it should be in the civ2 category

the name can be Scenario League / Civ2-Creation

currently SL is around 90% about civ2. if and when the focus is shifted more towards other games, we'll act accordingly

as i dont see any objections, i'll move on with the creation of the PBEM forum and the transfer of threads shortly

	19-08-2002 16:40									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I also agree with FMK

	19-08-2002 21:57									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks for the moderatorship, Markos.

I think the clear concensus is that SL remain a separate site, though no one minds if Civ2 Creation is folded in. However, it remains a forum dedicated to a hosted site, that being the Scenario League site. Given the new plans to revitalize the site, the forum should remain in the "Hosted Sites" column, along with the Spanish Civ forum. SL still represents a community of interest, rather than a category of Civ2. The dedicated forum is critical to our hopes to revitalize the site and community.

	19-08-2002 22:26									#22
	Remove this text

techumseh, the categorization of the forum has nothing to do with whether or not the forum is dedicated to the site. the new plans(magazine) doesnt take the site outside civ2. and as i said if something like this does happen we will evaluate the situation again. i believe we have proven that we dont treat hosted sites as our own property

placing it under civ2 will make it easier for new people to notice it and use it. leaving it under HS ruins the whole point of merging the two forums...

	19-08-2002 23:26									#23
	Tired of ads?

i got an additional proposal for the pbem forum. why not give the new mods power over there instead of ming? it seems obvious to me that they are already involved there playing, why add to mings load?

wait, what did i just say, give ming more time for banning in the OT? what was i thinking!

	20-08-2002 01:18									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

how often will moderation action need to be taken in the pbem forum?
i think everyone's civilized in these games...

	20-08-2002 01:22									#25
	Got spare money?

Maybe the mods can spend some time doing spot checks for cheaters?

	20-08-2002 01:29									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

the only ability a moderator will have that i can think of being in use to spot cheaters is to see the IP of a post

	20-08-2002 01:35									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well that would be useful too. Let's say an outed cheater returns under a new name, the mod might be able to catch him. Um, well I mean it's not like there's going to be any spam in the PBEM-forum so they might as well make themselves useful.

*hides from mulitple banning rods*

	20-08-2002 01:41									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well if the guys dont have anything better to do that check IP addresses...

	20-08-2002 01:44									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Come on you guys, surely you can scrap all your real life interests just to catch a cheater or two every year?

	20-08-2002 03:47									#30
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by MarkG how often will moderation action need to be taken in the pbem forum? i think everyone's civilized in these games...

Based on the CFC board I think that a dedicated mod would be a good idea...