18-08-2002 00:57									#31
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You guys also forget that war is very hard in civ 3, lets say we are playing with 16 civs if one civ is leading everyone declares war on him and the next turn all his cities rebel because of war weariness and if they don't sign a peace treaty the one civ is totally screwed and every few turns more and more people become unhappy. Not to mention a fact that there is a 70% chance any city you capture rebels and you lose your attacking army.

	18-08-2002 01:14									#32
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That's perhaps a little overstated, markusf.

You are a pretty active MPer, yes? Without slamming Civ3, can you tell me what's so great about Civ2 MP?

	18-08-2002 02:07									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus That's perhaps a little overstated, markusf. You are a pretty active MPer, yes? Without slamming Civ3, can you tell me what's so great about Civ2 MP?

You have a sence of accomplishment, everything you do matters and has a tangible effect. You have that just one more turn feel to it, in civ 3 you have the one more turn and i will fall asleep feel.

	18-08-2002 03:50									#34
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Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Spearman, Settler, Spearman, Settler

How should I change this for MP?
That's the question people should ask.

	18-08-2002 03:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Spearman, Settler, Spearman, Settler How should I change this for MP? That's the question people should ask.

just ics,
rush build a granary then crank out a set every 2-3 turns in deposition using slave labour.. its halarious.

	18-08-2002 03:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Spearman, Settler, Spearman, Settler How should I change this for MP? That's the question people should ask.

It's what you do with them after you build them

	18-08-2002 04:11									#37
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Huh? You guys lost me...

I'm a very experienced SP Civ player... but I know MP is wildly different. Learned that playing C&C MP.

I'm seriously interested in 1) what the general tenor of MP is, and how it's evolved over time, and 2) in addition to "one more turn," does it maintain some of the breadth of Civ in general?

	18-08-2002 04:22									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Markus they did a patch where they made rushings evilness pass on......in other words you didnt get to kill the discontented people you make, so does this still work? If so tell me so I can move up to emperor from monarch.

	18-08-2002 04:49									#39
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by SmartFart You mean obliterate AI with an arty. You know how many times I saw howitzers in mp? Zero times. Artillery....maybe 5-6. Vast mayority of the games are over before tactics.

Not true.

HOTW2 got to the end of the tech tree and maybe a few others;
and I've played a considerable number of MP games in Civ2 that got to Artillery and Howies.

	18-08-2002 04:57									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson Markus they did a patch where they made rushings evilness pass on......in other words you didnt get to kill the discontented people you make, so does this still work? If so tell me so I can move up to emperor from monarch.

It doesn't work anymore. Unhappiness builds up with every rush. You can only pop-rush lots if you have plenty of luxuries. If you try pop rushing your cities loads early on you'll end up with size 1 cities with 1 unhappy person in them.

	18-08-2002 05:01									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson Markus they did a patch where they made rushings evilness pass on......in other words you didnt get to kill the discontented people you make, so does this still work? If so tell me so I can move up to emperor from monarch.

uhm.. Well, i would build a city near a wheat, or 2 and once you have a granary in place you let the city grow to size 3 and then use slave labour to build a set. you aren't killing unhappy citizens but you can ICS waaay worse then you ever could in civ2

	18-08-2002 05:04									#42
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wouldnt you have to have a size 4 city at least to rush a settler? 1 or more for the russing, 2 for the settler, and 1 to stay? And wont it still produce unhappiness that lingers?

	18-08-2002 05:07									#43
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How about this. You can "abandon" cities. Wouldnt the next best strategy be to max rush any city in size 1, then when its about to burst, make the last settler and abandon the city and immediately resettle it? But then you cant have a grainery or any buildings......

	18-08-2002 11:10									#44
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You do indeed need size 4 cities to poprush settlers. And it does still produce ongoing unhappiness problems. If you abandon the unhappy city, the unhappiness gets transferred to the next nearest city, and if you abandon the city by building a settler the settler contains the unhappiness (so as soon as you build the new city it'll be 100% unhappy). So neither option works. You need to limit pop rushing depending on how many luxuries you have.

	18-08-2002 22:38									#45
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haha.. such newbs, all of you. your rush tactics will fail miserably and lose you the rest of the game against an intelligent opponent.

	19-08-2002 00:46									#46
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Until the game is released, who really knows what will and will not work. Playing against humans will be different than playing the AI... that is a fact. We will have to wait and see what strategies work best.

Like Civ II... only time will tell what works and what doesn't.

	19-08-2002 09:05									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by markusf You have a sence of accomplishment, everything you do matters and has a tangible effect. You have that just one more turn feel to it, in civ 3 you have the one more turn and i will fall asleep feel.

Well said!

I totally agree with this.

Civ2MP allows you to create something within the boundaries of luck. There is just enough randomness to emulate reality but you still feel you can achieve things and compete by improving your skills.

	19-08-2002 21:12									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Until the game is released, who really knows what will and will not work. Playing against humans will be different than playing the AI... that is a fact. We will have to wait and see what strategies work best. Like Civ II... only time will tell what works and what doesn't.

Now that I can agree with. I guess theres a first time for everything

	19-08-2002 22:23									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DrFell if you abandon the city by building a settler the settler contains the unhappiness (so as soon as you build the new city it'll be 100% unhappy). So neither option works. You need to limit pop rushing depending on how many luxuries you have.

What happens if you send off the "unhappy" settler to be killed or captured? That might become a strat if it resolves the problem.

	20-08-2002 03:06									#50
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Just make it a worker instead....

	20-08-2002 03:51									#51
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Then the unhappiness jumps to the nearest city (annoying if you've captured a heavily pop-rushed city and try to disband it).

	20-08-2002 13:03									#52
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Yes, there is no way to continuously pop rush from one city, until you have lots and lots of luxuries. By that time pop-rushing is not so desirable. This is a good thing though, because with the early versions despotism was way too powerful.

	23-08-2002 19:40									#53
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I have to laugh. The first game I played at Deity, I rushed to monarchy just to get out of Despotism. After a couple of turns I said, what the **** and went back to despotism. My first (and by no means last) clue that the game was somewhat flawed.

	23-08-2002 19:46									#54
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To be fair it's not like it was..........despotism blows, like it should. I think Monarchy should be a bit better early on though. A neat way would be to increase the number of free units per town, because support costs more in monarchy till your cities are greater than size 6.

Most games I go despotism - rep; even on deity it is viable. If you aren't religious the anarchy is downright mean.

	23-08-2002 19:58									#55
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But since I thought it should be bad, I assumed monarchy would be much better

Yes, it was the support cost early that caught me. And yes anarchy sucks.

Rich

	23-08-2002 20:14									#56
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quote: haha.. such newbs, all of you. your rush tactics will fail miserably and lose you the rest of the game against an intelligent opponent.

An intelligent opponent such as yourself? You're the ****ing newb. You couldn't do **** in civ2 without massively cheating. You ****ing suck at civ2. Amazing how you went so long without losing and now that you stopped cheating you've gone so long without winning. You should really just keep your ****ing mouth shut.

	23-08-2002 20:26									#57
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Popcorn, peanuts, beer.

It might be possible to make the same point without using quite so many *****

	23-08-2002 23:43									#58
	dont make me laugh! oh wait, too late Got spare money?

"Amazing how you went so long without losing and now that you stopped cheating you've gone so long without winning."

_____________________________________________

If by 'you' you mean yourself, then you are correct. Because as I remember it, you are the one that can't win, not I. And as for being a newb, that's all you. Your civ3 tactics from what I've read are rudimentary at best and wouldn't last you 2000 years against a real player.

	24-08-2002 04:17									#59
	Remove this text

Who the **** are you to talk to me? The only games you have ever won against me were when you took my capital in like 3500BC. Who the **** have you beaten without cheating? You aren't ****. You don't even have a ****ing right to even talk. And I haven't played civ2 in like 4 months so I don't know what the **** you're talking about. 52-4 my ass. If you have any legacy at all it's that you proved anything can be done through hex editing.

	24-08-2002 05:50									#60
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Who the **** have you beaten without cheating?

_____________________________________________

theburg
jhorsburgh
goodyhut
king maximus
upinflames
kaak
moker guy
wise soun
samson
phatman
mrbigdogpete
simonrobinson
thunder
epyx
phagocitus
fugazi4626
warriorsoflight
methamphetamine
hawkhunter
martinms600
travisjervey
anvil
caveat emptor
galactuslives
booze master
hueristic
asteiozos
general maximus
jes
drfell
esmailian
a-team
bravelaker
redbaren4
spartan
and yes, even you dip#%#@

for you see, while i had the power to hex edit, i didn't need to since i was far superior to you and all of those mentioned above in every way. i took pride in my gameleague history, and never hex editted once during an official game. so go take your jealous ravings back to your PC and learn how to play civ3 since you clearly need some work. i'll be right here when you think of a witty comeback.