17-08-2002 14:23									#1
	Democracy or Republic? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Monarch level and up. Standard map. Non-Religious.

Is Democracy worth the 8 turns of anarchy? I know war weariness might be a pain.

Or stick with republic?

I can't find any democracy vs **** Threads.

I get the feeling no one uses it due to war weariness?

Is this a dead govt?

	17-08-2002 14:52									#2
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I always head for Democracy.

At that point in the game, I'm always looking for an opportunity to slow my aggression a bit and build up some decent infrastructure. Since there is a 50% worker rate with Democracy, it definitely helps.

There is also the matter of corruption, as Republic is only marginally less in this than Monarchy.

I don't find Democracy useless because of Republic. Its actually the other way around for me (I prefer to go for Monarchy in the early game instead of republic).

And as for war weariness, it can easily be dealt with at the point where I start warring again, since I'll have Police stations and the Universal Suffrage it takes quite a while to build up to intolerable levels.

	18-08-2002 06:19									#3
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal I always head for Democracy. At that point in the game, I'm always looking for an opportunity to slow my aggression a bit and build up some decent infrastructure. Since there is a 50% worker rate with Democracy, it definitely helps. There is also the matter of corruption, as Republic is only marginally less in this than Monarchy. I don't find Democracy useless because of Republic. Its actually the other way around for me (I prefer to go for Monarchy in the early game instead of republic). And as for war weariness, it can easily be dealt with at the point where I start warring again, since I'll have Police stations and the Universal Suffrage it takes quite a while to build up to intolerable levels.

Correct Lord

Always remeber though, government choice is capital if you are a non-religious civ, because, anarchy is a very deteriorating stage in a civ, no progress. And Generaly, the larger the Civ, harder and longer the anarchy is. Also, Democracy is best for large "builder" empire, if you almost never enter war, always use democracy and republic. But, being a warmonger myself, I ussualy stick with the ole commies. They have great war attributes, military police, unit support, and their corruption is in my thoughts best for large warring empires.

-Ronnie

	18-08-2002 07:15									#4
	Re: Democracy or Republic? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Artifex Is this a dead govt?

No way in the world. The fellas above have spelt out its major benefits - but it really does help in war too. With pillaging and expanding going on the 150% worker rate speeds it up.

	18-08-2002 14:25									#5
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Ok, this is something I've been wondering about in my current game...

I've got options open for democracy and communism, but have stuck with republic up until now simply because i'm engaged in a war with the chinese on a neighbouring continent, and due to the size of their empire i'm churning out a steady stream of reinforcements to send off accross the seas (sure guys, you'll be back by christmas....right )

great fun though this is, i'm begining to suffer war weariness - i understand Communism is better for war leadership. and from what i've read in the manual it seems good (....conscription heheheh!) - on the other hand it mentions problems with corruption which are uniform across your cities regardless of distance from palace/fp

how much of a problem is this likely to be, and what improvements will alleviate this if it is a major hinderance (i have courthouse in approx 3/4 of cities)???

any help appreciated

	18-08-2002 16:22									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Average Monkey I've got options open for democracy and communism,

Depends on the type of war mate - close and/or personal I pick communism to be better despite corruption - but since its across the sea Im not getting that impression.

Democracy is better - provided you have the economy (for support costs) in banks / wall street and are at a tech level to build police stations and the wonder Uni. Suff. That'll take care of your war weariness for a long while. You could just build those for republic too.

If the above is not happening - communism or monarchy are your best bet. If this place if far off (and you want to expand) communism will spread corruption 'equally' but this will effect your core cities (but does that matter if they are really good?). Monarchy on the other hand has bad effects far out - but those core cities will be better off.

So many damn factors to calculate...

	18-08-2002 21:42									#7
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I like democracy. I'm not a big warmonger, and I can't help it but build.

I tend to a defensive player. I hunker down and buid up allies for support.

Despot -> Republic -> Democyacy

	19-08-2002 01:50									#8
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Average Monkey,
If weariness is getting you down and you can stand the slower research, then switch to communism. Assuming you have a great economy now, your research may take 1-1/2 to twice as long.

With lots of cities (well above the 1.5 x Optimal Number of Cities), your corruption may be as little as 15-20%, assuming you have both courthouse and police station in the individual city. This will apply to ALL of your cities, even your capitals.

Losing the extra gold per tile will probably force you to reduce science expenditures, though you will probably not be spending any for entertainment.

	19-08-2002 02:02									#9
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Yes, war warriness is an extreme problem for a warmonger like me...

COmmunism gives me the abbility to control far away empires under my rule, and, the equal corruption may affect your hoem cities, BUT, if you are smart and diversify your production cities so that 2 can cover the lose of one, then this will nto matter as much. Even with all those war-happiness improvements, after about 50 turns at war, your people will start getting angry.
And when I go to war, I ussauly finish off one and start on the other, this means that continual conquest will requir communism. And to you builders out there, always go with Democracy, and build those little improvements and things which you value...right...

-Ronnie

	19-08-2002 02:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Strakorfsky ... And to you builders out there, always go with Democracy, and build those little improvements and things which you value... -Ronnie

Having that valued infrastructure already in place really helps out when it's clobbering time!

	19-08-2002 02:15									#11
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Jaybe
Average Monkey,
If weariness is getting you down and you can stand the slower research, then switch to communism. Assuming you have a great economy now, your research may take 1-1/2 to twice as long.

With lots of cities (well above the 1.5 x Optimal Number of Cities), your corruption may be as little as 15-20%, assuming you have both courthouse and police station in the individual city. This will apply to ALL of your cities, even your capitals.

Losing the extra gold per tile will probably force you to reduce science expenditures, though you will probably not be spending any for entertainment. [/QUOTE

Jaybe, I find that in higehr end games, there is not really a need for research. Reason is that being communist, you can delcare war without fear of reprisles, so, you could attack a very advance nation, and take all theit techs, the onyl need for gold would be buying techs and luxuries, nto research. Researching your techs the honest way is such a....chefiten-regent kinda thing...

-Ronnie

	19-08-2002 02:17									#12
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EH, all you need is a barracks, market, bank, temple, and harbor, and you can go to war.

All those xtravagent stuff you build just takes up time so you can amrvel at the amount of things built, well, I guess it is harder for me to look at it because I am a warmonger.

-Ronnie

	19-08-2002 02:45									#13
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I only go from republic to democracy if I am a religios civ, or if the rate my workers are building railroads annoys me.

	19-08-2002 16:38									#14
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Ronnie makes some good points, but I guess I just find warmongering to be rather boorish (not bore-ish). I try to keep in mind that conquering brings glory, but building is benevolent. Whatever. Nevermind.

	20-08-2002 02:27									#15
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Candybo, when one chooses the builders path, it is very hard to win on monarch-diety, but when you are a warmonger, you can easly get techs, cities, and gold, that is why I find builders for the faint of heart.

Also, warmongers are generaly pretty smart stratagist, making do with only limited begining resources where-as a builder would need a very good starting place.

Well, in all, communism for warmongers, and democracy for builders, very simple eh?

PS: Visit my thread on "Strakorfskys Thoughts on Ancient Invasions"

-Ronnie

	23-08-2002 05:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Strakorfsky Well, in all, communism for warmongers, and democracy for builders, very simple eh?

Not totaly. In some cases, Democracy is better then Communism in war time. If you time it right, be under democracy when another civ that you know is about to attack. When they do, you get a surge of happiness, and less corruption. I think of it as an ace up the sleave.