17-08-2002 17:54									#1
	what the heck does we love the king day DO anyway? Inflate your Upload Space

OK, so I haven't been here for the extended discussions, but I don't know this one.

it's not in the civilopedia, for some reason. the manual is useless.

and when i have a celebration, I can't tell the difference. the amount of food, shields, trade seems completely unchanged, no matter the government. i always knew in civ2, but this seems vague.

	17-08-2002 18:12									#2
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WLTKD reduces corruption and waste in your city, and it prevents your city from flipping due to culture.

	17-08-2002 19:08									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Ijuin WLTKD reduces corruption and waste in your city, and it prevents your city from flipping due to culture.

Prevent would be too much said, but it is the best immediate thing you can do to diminish flipping chances, yes (always bigger than 200% gain)

Other than those mentioned above, I think it has some effect on when you get new additions to your palace, and of course you get fireworks too

DeepO

	17-08-2002 20:11									#4
	Re: what the heck does we love the king day DO anyway? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast it's not in the civilopedia, for some reason. the manual is useless.

Actually it is in the Civilopedia but its not indexed. It's mentioned at the bottom of the Game Concept page for Corruption and Waste.


"We Love The ____ Day also reduces waste."


At least in the 1.29f version of the game.

	17-08-2002 22:51									#5
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Yeah, but by how much does it reduce Corruption and Waste? I need numbers!

Also, what causes are there to WLTKD? I know happiness and Culture, but do say Entertainers cause it?

	17-08-2002 23:01									#6
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I think it only reduces waste. Might be 25% now like the Courthouse and Police station are.

From the 1.29f readme

quote: * Increased corruption/waste fighting ability of courthouses and police stations. * Increased waste fighting ability of We Love The King Day.

I think someone from Firaxis said its 25% now.

	18-08-2002 00:02									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred I think it only reduces waste. Might be 25% now like the Courthouse and Police station are. I think someone from Firaxis said its 25% now.

Yes, WLTKD is a waste reducer only.

I am not 100% sure about this, but IIRC, the effect of WLTKD is that 25% of the formerly wasted shields go into productive production... If you make 10 shields total, losing 4 to waste, being able to use 6 WITHOUT WLTKD, you would save 1 wasted shield WITH it, making it 10=5+5. Can anyone confirm what I believe I have read somewhere around here?

	18-08-2002 01:26									#8
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Not sure on the percentage but thats what I thought. However its 25% of the percentage of waste rounded down to the nearest shield lost, not 25% of the wasted shields or WLKD, a courthouse, and a police station would get you to 75% of production. So if the waste is over 100% you will still be stuck at 1 shield. If a city is corrupt enough there is no way to get more than one shield. This part is certain.

Lets say you have a city the produces 20 shields and 10 are red. Build a courthouse. You will not get back 5 shields. The waste will go from 50% to 37.5% which brings down from 10 waste to 7.5 wasted rounded down to 7 shields.

At least thats how I think it works. I worked it out pretty carefully one game by saving the game and checking the results with a courthouse in a couple of cities. It was a while ago that I did this and the percentage of change was lower but it all checked out with and predicted results perfectly.

	18-08-2002 04:13									#9
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Hm, my own personal experiance in this matter are limited but, I have noticed a considerable corruption reduction as a beneffit of the WLTKD, and he is correct, it will clearly state everything about the game in the readme, tha trick is staying awake while you read through the mindless technical information they wrote down.

	18-08-2002 06:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Fighter Also, what causes are there to WLTKD? I know happiness and Culture, but do say Entertainers cause it?

It has nothing to do with culture. A city celebrates if
1. It is size 6 or above.
2. At least half of its citizens are happy.
3. None of its citizens are unhappy.

Entertainers can certainly help you get WLTKD, because each one makes a content citizen happy (or an unhappy citizen content if no content citizens are available?). In addition, each specialist, including entertainers, makes an unhappy citizen, if you have one, content -- the specialist itself, since specialists are recruited from the least happy of your citizens, but are always counted as content. (Evidently, your people like jobs as entertainers, tax collectors, and scientists better than back-breaking labor in the fields and mines -- go figure! )

I think that the effects only start after the city has celebrated at least once, so if you don't see a change immediately, that may be why. The requirements for and qualitative effects of WLTKD are all spelled out in the manual, by the way.

	18-08-2002 07:40									#11
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There is one more requirement for WLTKD. The city must not be short on food. Zero extra food is OK. Any shortage of food and WLTKD ends.

	18-08-2002 07:48									#12
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i Thought it gave + production and a city growth. (I thought). A better question would be. How do you get We love the Queen/King day? I find that later in the game all my cities do is not like me. Im sure im not alone.

	18-08-2002 07:56									#13
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Lauren, glad you're still here. You only need 491 more posts for the custom avatar!

Yeah, its usually easier for me to keep the peeps happy earlier in the game. Those size 30+ cities get hard to manage. I usually don't have to touch the luxury slider untill the late industrial era.

	18-08-2002 08:06									#14
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Thank you carver


What I have actually figured was the larger your country the worse off you are (When I say larger I mean spread out). It seems to be a pretty consistent problem. The farther from your core 5 cities the worse off you are.

	18-08-2002 08:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Yeah, its usually easier for me to keep the peeps happy earlier in the game. Those size 30+ cities get hard to manage. I usually don't have to touch the luxury slider untill the late industrial era.

Well, making all of your specialists (you have at least 10 in a size-30 city) entertainers should certainly help. If you can manage to get all 8 luxuries, or nearly all (you'll probably have to import at least a few), a marketplace is the best city improvement you can have for maintaining happiness.

	18-08-2002 08:21									#16
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quote: Originally posted by LaurenX2C What I have actually figured was the larger your country the worse off you are (When I say larger I mean spread out). It seems to be a pretty consistent problem. The farther from your core 5 cities the worse off you are.

Well, distance from the capital increases corruption. So does the number of cities, so in this case, not being spread out will not by itself save you -- a huge number of very closely packed cities will still experience a great deal of corruption. Granted, it will be less than if they were spread out, but at the price of each city having less land to work.

But are you saying that distance from the capital also increases unhappiness? If so, do you mean that it is a direct effect? Obviously, the cities farthest from the capitol will tend to be newest and most wasteful, and thus not to have built as many happiness- and contentness-increasing improvements as those closer to the capitol. Also it is less likely that they will be connected to luxuries.

	18-08-2002 08:23									#17
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Don't have your cities overpopulated. That will happen if you use automated workers. Cut their growth when all the tiles are worked by replacing irrigation with mines.

Build happiness improvements. GET THE SISTINE CHAPPEL. That doubles the affect of cathedrals, all of them. Next best is Bachs Cathedral which makes two unhappy people content for all the cities on the same continent, which works even in cities with no happiness improvements unlike The Sistine Chappel but its only good for the one continent.

Luxury goods. These are what makes content people HAPPY. THEIR SO HAPPY, no they don't want to go on the cart. One happy face each if you don't have the market place in a city. If you do have the market place and you darn well should in any city six or greater in pop:

1 or 2 luxuries 1 happy face each
3 or 4 luxuries 2 happy face each
5 or 6 luxuries 3 happy face each
7 or 8 luxuries 4 happy face each

Giving you up to twenty face changes.

First they go to making content faces happy
Second they turn unhappy faces content
It takes two happy faces to make an unappy citizen contend.

In my present game I have the Sistine chappel but the French have Bachs for the moment. I have up to fourteen people happy in each city but I am at war with the French and I getting the start of war weariness. I have 9 content faces in the large cities plus two more because I am playing on Regent. I have all the luxuries, three by trade. That gives me 11 happy people with 9 more happy faces left to affect the unhappy. Four more happy and one content which should give a total of 15 happy one content and any more unhappy. If get Bachs that goes up to 17 happy since France and I mostly share the same continent.

Unfortunatly due to war weariness I am only getting 13 happy people in the larger cities at present. Might be the two cities that I lost. They were French cities that I failed to hold because somehow I forgot to move in a Mech to support the tanks. So I guess France will have to go by-by real fast.

	18-08-2002 08:32									#18
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quote: Originally posted by JohnM2433 But are you saying that distance from the capital also increases unhappiness?

Distance from the capital has little on happiness. Same for the number of cities. EXCEPT if you are spending money on entertainment. If corruption is wiping out all but one coin you will get zero happy faces unless got to nearly100 per cent entertainment. No entertainment means no effect from corruption on happiness. Corruption effects the money availble for entertainment.

	18-08-2002 08:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Distance from the capital has little on happiness. Same for the number of cities. EXCEPT if you are spending money on entertainment. If corruption is wiping out all but one coin you will get zero happy faces unless got to nearly100 per cent entertainment. No entertainment means no effect from corruption on happiness. Corruption effects the money availble for entertainment.

I listed several factors that might account for the phenomenon, but this probably explains it. It didn't occur to me because I almost never put my income into entertainment.

	18-08-2002 16:35									#20
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I know that WLTKD has been toned down from civ/civ2, but I think it has been toned down too much. Now no one can tell what it does apart from give you fireworks

We could do with some other effect that is easier to see, perhaps increase in resources/trade in the base square for example...

	19-08-2002 21:16									#21
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Provost, the waste reduction is substantial. I'm not sure about the 25% figure... I've had cities go from 1 shield up to 6 or 8. Far-off cities with courthouse, police station and WLTKD can be quite productive, as opposed to being a 1 shield wasteland. Also keep in mind that your score is boosted by happy citizens (the one aspect of the scoring system I really like).

CivII's WLTKD was insanely overpowered, IMHO. I like CivIII's more subtle effect better.

-Arrian

	20-08-2002 00:09									#22
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Well, I don't confess any religion but I am certainly not an atheist.

-S

	20-08-2002 17:26									#23
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Gad, it hardly seems worth it, except to enjoy the fireworks.

I was just playing a game where I had a city maxed out at size 6, permanently celebrating WLTKD, and it up and defected to the greeks one day!

so it's not a guarantee, and the corruption factor is hard to see. rush building a bunch of culture buildings has more effect.

	20-08-2002 17:45									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Of course the WLTKD is no guarantee, I said it was at least a 200% improvement, which could lead up to a total annihilation of flip chances. You still need to see to the other factors, or you have some chance remaining... But it sure can help, especially when you have a lot of troops stationed in a hostile city, there you can see large gains, 700% chance improvements are no exception with a few troops running around.

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned here: it might be that WLTKD has its effect on how fast foreign citizens assimilate into your own civ, changing their nationality. But there is no formula known about that (yet).

PS: don't underestimate the effects of WLTKD on waste, if you have to build a FP by hand (instead of rushing it with a GL), it can mean the difference between 35 turns or 100 turns... I'll gladly have my commerce slider set to 20% lux for a few turns if this means I can shave off a few turns on the FP build time.

DeepO

	20-08-2002 20:56									#25
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I don't really know what WLTKD does. However, as long as my people love me, I'm happy.

	20-08-2002 22:50									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Saurus Well, I don't confess any religion but I am certainly not an atheist. -S

What does that have to do with anything here?

I didn't reread the whole thread before responding, so maybe I missed something...

	20-08-2002 23:03									#27
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[silly rant] What I'd like to know is how my cities are producing all those prettily colored explosions before my civ has discovered gunpowder? Huh? [/silly rant]

Ok, so I'm avoiding doing something really boring at work.

I continually learn new things on this board. I like DeepO's suggestion of using the luxury slider to kick start a WLTKD to cut down on FP build times. Definitely worth it, given the jump in productivity around the FP site.

Another idea I saw on here (can't remember who, sorry), was attacking and losing to the AI UUs to kick them into a GA as early as possible. I don't like early UU's for that reason, the GA always seems wasted unless you have a fair number of cities.

	20-08-2002 23:18									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO PS: don't underestimate the effects of WLTKD on waste, if you have to build a FP by hand (instead of rushing it with a GL), it can mean the difference between 35 turns or 100 turns... I'll gladly have my commerce slider set to 20% lux for a few turns if this means I can shave off a few turns on the FP build time.

This is absolutely true, especially when you have larger cities. Keep them happy, and corruption goes down significantly. I've seen cities go from 50% waste up to 95% waste because I lose a luxury resource and WLTKD ends. That's either a tank every few turns, or one in a century. I'll keep the people happy, thank you.

In fact, I always wondered why people complained so much about corruption. It never seemed all that bad to me. But at the same time, I make a point of either trading for or otherwise "obtaining" EVERY luxury resource every game. I'll go to war if someone denies me a luxury. And because of that mind-set, I've been benefiting from WLTKD when others sit back and moan about corruption.

	21-08-2002 01:56									#29
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I'm with you, Stuie. I have the same approach toward luxuries, and have found WLTKD very useful.

The original corruption levels were a bit too harsh, IMO. Now they are fine, bordering on too low.

-Arrian

	21-08-2002 02:42									#30
	The effects of WLTKD on waste Enter the AD-FREE zone

*alexman puts on corruption-expert hat

It's like a courthouse, but only for waste. That means that it:

1) Cuts distance corruption in half.
2) Adds 25% to the OCN for that city.

More answers on corruption and waste in the corruption FAQ thread.

*alexman takes off corruption-expert hat, and becomes his usual clueless self