17-08-2002 22:59									#1
	Longevity Exploit Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I noticed that if your Civ has the Longevity wonder, and if you decide to add Settlers or Workers to a city, you will get DOUBLE population points from them! In other words, your city will grow by 2 if you add a Worker and by 4 if you add a Settler. However, Settlers still cost 2 pop and Workers still cost 1 pop to produce! This means that you can build a Worker, add it to the city that produced it on the next turn, and you have more pop than you started with!

This can easily lead to an exploit whereby you build LOTS of Workers and add them back to your cities, causing a huge population explosion since you are essentially getting an extra pop for free when you add a Worker.

	17-08-2002 23:14									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That IS interesting. Unfortunately, buy the time you can build the Longevity Wonder, you're almost certainly knee-deep in the End-Game Slowdown (aka. the "Modern Times") and not only do AI turn calculations consume unGodly amounts of time, but almost all available land has already been taken by the player and the AI(s). You're right, though, this little exploit could be very useful in speeding the developement of existing cities. Thanx!

	18-08-2002 00:35									#3
	Support Apolyton

Maybe this is why it was added so late in the tech tree.

(Like most people I've seen commenting on Longevity I agree that it's utterly useless - I've never had it availabe except when every one of my cities was already maxed out).

	18-08-2002 00:46									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Actually, now that I think about it, if you renamed it the "Fountain of Youth" and changed the tech and resource requirements, you could reasonably have it as a mid-Medival Wonder. The myth of the Fountain of Youth is what drove the Spanish or Portugeuse explorers (don't remember my history exactly) through the Florida panhandle. That, and gold.

	18-08-2002 00:50									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Longevity wonder? There is such a thing?

Been playing since the day after the game came. Every time the game has ended before I even start the thing. If I want I can launch the same turn as the Party Lounge becomes available.

	18-08-2002 01:08									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ethelred, I've wondered the same thing. For the game I just won (Space Race) I finally turned off Cultural Victory out of digust with it. Got tired of Culturally winning the game before the end of the Industrial Era EVERYTIME! Might have been nice if Firaxis had added additional movies other than the Intro and the Space Race (are there others?)...but that is VERY OLD dicussion fodder, let us not speak further of it...

	18-08-2002 02:35									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Ethelred, I've wondered the same thing. For the game I just won (Space Race) I finally turned off Cultural Victory out of digust with it. Got tired of Culturally winning the game before the end of the Industrial Era EVERYTIME! Might have been nice if Firaxis had added additional movies other than the Intro and the Space Race (are there others?)...but that is VERY OLD dicussion fodder, let us not speak further of it...

There is one other....The military advisor says "Dont worry sir, this fortress is impentrable. Theres absoeltuly no reason to..." And then he looks to the side, ducks, and while hit helmet is spinning in the air and arrow pierces it, and it falls and you hear a semi-loud "Owe!"

Dont know what its used for though

	18-08-2002 03:10									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think its there to annoy Sid.

My guess is that it was a bit of an experiment before they decided they couldn't do a lot of movies due to time constraints.

	18-08-2002 05:33									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You can rename Security_Briefing.bik to Intro.bik and it will be your intro movie when you start the game. Primary advantage is that it is much shorter, and it's funny for awhile.

	18-08-2002 20:08									#10
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred I think its there to annoy Sid. My guess is that it was a bit of an experiment before they decided they couldn't do a lot of movies due to time constraints.

Yeah I think that too.

	18-08-2002 22:15									#11
	Got spare money?

I'll have to try this out. I just started a game yesterday.

Generaly, when I'm in the modern age, about half my workers are slaves, so the need to build more is not needed.


This will help with newly captured cities. Since they tend to riot and not very happy with me. I can build settlers in both my cities and the captured cities and "switch" populations. Distribute enemy citizens to my other cities, and plant my own into the captured cities.

	19-08-2002 00:55									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I just verified that this exploit does not exist in two completely indepenedent V1.29 games at Regent and Emperor levels.

I tested with the French and th Egyptians building Longevity and then joined in 5 or 6 workers. All the workers only boost 1 pop point.

Ijuin,

I don't know where you came up with this thought process, but if you can post a save game to support your assertion then we can look into it more closely.

I think you may have just joined the settler to a city at the same time it grow an internal pop point.

On a side note, using settlers to transfer pop points between cities is a terrible idea because it costs you 15 shelds per transfer instead of 10 as with a worker.

A point that has been made in otehr threads, is that you should growall your population points in cities of 6 or less in size. These points cost 20 grain bundles (10 with a granary) while the cost doubles at 7 or above and then doubles again above 12. Grow the points below 6 and use them to build infrastructure then join them to the cities at the appropriate tiems to grow the cities by migration instead of internal growth.

	19-08-2002 01:40									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Good thing I spotted your post. I was about to test this to. Ijuin, could you provide a save file for us? I would also like to see this.

	19-08-2002 01:42									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Don't consider it an exploit. Think of it as paying all of your citizens in the city to reproduce all day long.

	19-08-2002 01:56									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by cracker A point that has been made in otehr threads, is that you should growall your population points in cities of 6 or less in size. These points cost 20 grain bundles (10 with a granary) while the cost doubles at 7 or above and then doubles again above 12. Grow the points below 6 and use them to build infrastructure then join them to the cities at the appropriate tiems to grow the cities by migration instead of internal growth.

True but in my present game I have using a city with population twelve to churn out workers. The place has Eight irrigated and railed flood plain tiles and no hills or mountains. They are breeding like rabbits in that city. The food box overflows every turn with the population at twelve. No I didn't design my cities that way. I captured that bastion of anti-birth control fanatics from Liz.

It could be worse. If the other cities didn't over lap it would have THREE more flood plain tiles.

I just started the game up to check. I had to add four more flood plain tiles. My memory refused to accept a city with ELEVEN flood plain tiles.

Excuse me TWELVE flood plain tiles but the city tile is on one of them so there are effectively only eleven.

	19-08-2002 07:18									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Trip Don't consider it an exploit. Think of it as paying all of your citizens in the city to reproduce all day long.

Really? I thought they always did that.

	19-08-2002 09:12									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They do, but they're more willing when you pay them.

	19-08-2002 17:57									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Good thing I spotted your post. I was about to test this to. Ijuin, could you provide a save file for us? I would also like to see this.

This exploit, in which ANY additions to a city's population get doubled with Longevity, was in the original out-of-box game, but I believe that it was removed in versions 1.21 and later.

	19-08-2002 18:21									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Generaly, when I'm in the modern age, about half my workers are slaves, so the need to build more is not needed.

Really? Does this mean that you have captured workers? And you are using them?

Correct me if I'm wrong but captured workers work half as effective as regular workers and don't ever switch their loyalty. Whereas, citizens of a city eventually switch to your civ.

Putting aside for the moment that captured citzens don't cost anything, isn't your strategy very inefficient? Wouldn't it be better to add the captured worker to the city and then build a worker with one of your own citizens in order to have an efficient worker?

I guess it all depends on whether you are actually using the workers to improve the cities areas or are they just hanging around waiting for pollution to pop up?

	19-08-2002 18:28									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Generaly, when I'm in the modern age, about half my workers are slaves, so the need to build more is not needed.

Really? Does this mean that you have captured workers? And you are using them?

Correct me if I'm wrong but captured workers work half as effective as regular workers and don't ever switch their loyalty. Whereas, citizens of a city eventually switch to your civ.

Putting aside for the moment that captured citzens don't cost anything, isn't your strategy very inefficient? Wouldn't it be better to add the captured worker to the city and then build a worker with one of your own citizens in order to have an efficient worker?

I guess it all depends on whether you are actually using the workers to improve the cities areas or are they just hanging around waiting for pollution to pop up?

	19-08-2002 18:36									#21
	Remove this text

"Correct me if I'm wrong but captured workers work half as effective as regular workers and don't ever switch their loyalty. Whereas, citizens of a city eventually switch to your civ. "

On the other hand, captured workers don't have any support cost while you have to pay 1 gol/turn per regular worker.

	19-08-2002 20:22									#22
	Got spare money?

Since this exploit no longer exists and can't even be confirmed because it was from at least 2 or 3 patches ago, this thread should be closed.

A key point here is that when anyone reports something strange or unusual, these reports should include the version number (patch) and difficulty level of the game.

Down rev games like the out of the box versions have lots of very strange things that have already been fixed adn reporting these features 6 to 9 months after the fact is a lot like crying tazmanian wolf.

	19-08-2002 22:51									#23
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by fittstim Really? Does this mean that you have captured workers? And you are using them? Correct me if I'm wrong but captured workers work half as effective as regular workers and don't ever switch their loyalty. Whereas, citizens of a city eventually switch to your civ. Putting aside for the moment that captured citzens don't cost anything, isn't your strategy very inefficient? Wouldn't it be better to add the captured worker to the city and then build a worker with one of your own citizens in order to have an efficient worker? I guess it all depends on whether you are actually using the workers to improve the cities areas or are they just hanging around waiting for pollution to pop up?

Easy their Mr. Double Post

I'm in Democracy when that happens, and they work just as well as if I was in Republic. Besides, I don't have that much else to build, mostly just cleaning up pollution tiles.

	19-08-2002 22:56									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by cracker Since this exploit no longer exists and can't even be confirmed because it was from at least 2 or 3 patches ago, this thread should be closed. A key point here is that when anyone reports something strange or unusual, these reports should include the version number (patch) and difficulty level of the game. Down rev games like the out of the box versions have lots of very strange things that have already been fixed adn reporting these features 6 to 9 months after the fact is a lot like crying tazmanian wolf.

True, but he had a legit concern, which is *gulp* welcomed by most. Besides, at least every week there is someone else posting about what WLTKD does. Do you think everyone should search done 30 pages of threads just to find a silly little answer? Please let me know of anyone who goes beyond 5 pages.

Everyone who think they found a bug should report the version number and diffculty and possibly provides a save.

	19-08-2002 23:06									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

This has already been discovered, and banned by some tournaments. (including rbc)

	20-08-2002 02:20									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yup, this method has been banned from all the tournaments or HoF games that I know of.