18-08-2002 07:27									#1
	naming elite units and leaders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ive noticed something and was hoping to see if anyone else had seen this too
i have plenty of elite infantry units and i start a war, i get a GL and it asks me to rename my unit. i dont care about the renaming thing so i leave it as infantry (default) and i go and use my leader. i find that no other infantry units seem to be able to create leaders now. i try many,many elite infantry battles but nothing but i do get one using a elite cavalry.

my question is do i have to give my *unit a new name to be able to generate more leaders with that type of unit?

when i got tanks i named my * units tank1,tank2, and got plenty of leaders .

i think that if a unit is renamed a default name, its not going to be able to generate any more units that would have the same default name.

if this is true then be sure to name your * units something other than the default if you want more leaders from than type of unit

if its not true then i had a terrible streak of luck one night with 40+ elite infantry

thx

	18-08-2002 10:24									#2
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Pure luck (bad) for you. Renaming should not affect your chances of generating a GL. I have gotten GLs, chosen to not rename the unit, and still generated GLs from the same type of unit (i.e., I have received two GLs from different horsemen, and teo GLs from different knights - chosing not to rename the initial GL-producing unit in each case).

I've had bad streaks as well- painful.

Catt

	18-08-2002 11:57									#3
	Re: naming elite units and leaders Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by reefer addict if its not true then i had a terrible streak of luck one night with 40+ elite infantry

As Catt says: bad luck. But remember the any unit with an asterisk * cannot generate a GL. Also make sure you build the Heroic Epic small wonder. That changes your GL generation odds to 1/12 (that does not mean that in 12 turns you'll get a GL).

The name is just a fluff thing. It has not real meaning and no affect. But do pay attention to that asterisk!

Oh, and also, you'll never gen a GL when fighting barbarians (Firaxis said never).

	18-08-2002 13:02									#4
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I name mine Guards usually. Guards units are elite in many countries throughout history.

If I'm in Monarchy I name the 2nd Royal Guards, 4th Royal Guards, 6th Royal Guards, etc.

If I'm a republic, 2nd Republican Guards, 4th Republican Guards, etc.

If Democracy or Communism, I name them just Guards. 1st Guards, 3rd Guards, etc.

This should fix all your problems!

If your german and raze cities alot you can name them 1st eintzengruppen, 2nd eintzengruppen, 3rd eintzengruppen..

	18-08-2002 16:34									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Artifex I name mine Guards usually. Guards units are elite in many countries throughout history. If I'm in Monarchy I name the 2nd Royal Guards, 4th Royal Guards, 6th Royal Guards, etc. If I'm a republic, 2nd Republican Guards, 4th Republican Guards, etc. If Democracy or Communism, I name them just Guards. 1st Guards, 3rd Guards, etc.

Geez - so I suppose you dont ever use elite units for attacking?

Sometimes I wonder if the 'bad spells' Catt mentioned are simply random chance or a secret part of the program Maybe Im being paranoid...

	18-08-2002 16:37									#6
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As I'm not really a militaristic player and I've only played one game since the new patch, I haven't come across this naming feature yet, sounds interesting

	18-08-2002 16:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Catt Pure luck (bad) for you. Renaming should not affect your chances of generating a GL. I have gotten GLs, chosen to not rename the unit, and still generated GLs from the same type of unit (i.e., I have received two GLs from different horsemen, and teo GLs from different knights - chosing not to rename the initial GL-producing unit in each case). I've had bad streaks as well- painful. Catt

hang on, the whole point behind naming units was so that you;d know which units had generated leaders, and they're supposed to be able to generate a Great Leader more than once!

	18-08-2002 16:51									#8
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Utterly useless, IMHO

	18-08-2002 16:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 hang on, the whole point behind naming units was so that you;d know which units had generated leaders, and they're supposed to be able to generate a Great Leader more than once!

Only if you upgrade 'em and reset the elite/GL counter.

You're able to name them so you know which elite units have generated GLs so you *don't* use them to mop up fragile units to try to generate another GL.

That's why named elite Legions make perfect army additions!

	18-08-2002 20:04									#10
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Can we generate a GL from an army .

	18-08-2002 20:21									#11
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quote: Originally posted by SABRA Can we generate a GL from an army .

no, doesn't work!!!!!!

	18-08-2002 20:47									#12
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 hang on, the whole point behind naming units was so that you;d know which units had generated leaders, and they're supposed to be able to generate a Great Leader more than once!

No, you have it wrong. Once a unit has generated a Leader, it will never be able create another one. That's why they added the naming feature, so you'd know.

	18-08-2002 20:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by candybo Utterly useless, IMHO

If they added some way of giving these units a hotkey, then they'd be onto something. Just put a named unit in charge of a particular theatre, and with a keystroke you could find instantly your way to it's location. Maybe use the number keys, so you could have 10 altogether.

	18-08-2002 21:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 hang on, the whole point behind naming units was so that you;d know which units had generated leaders, and they're supposed to be able to generate a Great Leader more than once!

quote: No, you have it wrong. Once a unit has generated a Leader, it will never be able create another one. That's why they added the naming feature, so you'd know.

your unit can generate a new GL IF you have upgraded it after the first GL was created.
( so this does mean, that for example: a swordsman is only able to create ONE GL. )


Edit: Quotes were off

	18-08-2002 22:27									#15
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can I upgrade units in armies? I had an army of riders until the modern times, too bad, some tank ate them for breakfast ;-)

	18-08-2002 22:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by GrendelS can I upgrade units in armies? I had an army of riders until the modern times, too bad, some tank ate them for breakfast ;-)

Nope, you can't. Once you add a unit into an army, it cannot be taken out, nor upgraded.

	19-08-2002 02:03									#17
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Ok, pay attention people.

As I said, the name is fluff. It doesn't mean anything. It's decorative only. (yes it would be great if you could name any unit and if you could then zoom to a named unit, but you can't [at least as of 1.29]).

Pay attention to the asterisk!!!. The asterisk means the unit has generated a Great Leader and cannot generate another (until/unless it's upgraded). If there is no asterisk then that unit can gen a GL. If there is an asterisk then it can not.

If you upgrade a named unit it will keep it's name, but the asterisk will go away. Thus if you upgrade a unit it may then generate another Great Leader (even though the previous incarnation of that unit already generated one).

Again, the asterisk goes away when you upgrade the unit (but the name does not which is why you should consider the name decoration only).

As was said above by Alva, a (unmod'ed) Swordsman which has gen'ed a GL will never gen another GL. Why? Because it will have an asterisk, and it can't be upgraded.

Another example: An elite Archer wins a battle, and gen's a GL. The unit gets an asterisk, and is illustriously named: "1st King's Archers". Later you learn Invention, and you upgrade your archer to a Longbowman. What does the unit look like? It has no asterisk, and it has the name "1st King's Archers" (yes, it stays "Archers" because you gave it the name Archers, and you can't rename it until it gen's another GL [and yes that is confusing so choose your names carefully - in this case your Longbowman will have no indication that it's a Longbowman other than the unit icon]). Once that Longbowman gets elite it may then gen another GL. After that it will never gen another GL since you can't upgrade Longbowmen.

Other comments:
No, an army will never gen a GL (though units in armies can get promotions all the way to elite), nor can you gen a GL fighting against barbarians. Vondrack is correct about neither unloading nor upgrading units in armies. Any comments to the contrary are referring to bugs in pre-1.29 versions of the game.

Last edited by RedBird on 19-08-2002 at 10:53

	19-08-2002 04:58									#18
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Thanks for the clairification

	19-08-2002 06:24									#19
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Firaxis should allow you to get GL with an Army in either PLW or the next patch.

	19-08-2002 07:10									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik Firaxis should allow you to get GL with an Army in either PTW or the next patch.

Since armies are so much more likely to not lose in combat, that would make it too easy.

(With apologies to those who cannot seem to get any GL's)

	19-08-2002 11:42									#21
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Maybe a bit off-topic, but is it possible to have more than one Great Leader at once? Will I have to use my current Great Leader for and army or a rush-job before I can get another one?
The Military Advisor screen says, IIRC, "Available Leader", not "Available Leaders".

I want another Leader, but I don't want to use my existing one to build an Airport! (and I can build armies myself)

	19-08-2002 12:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by mwaf Maybe a bit off-topic, but is it possible to have more than one Great Leader at once? Will I have to use my current Great Leader for and army or a rush-job before I can get another one?

Sadly, no and yes.

	19-08-2002 13:31									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan Sadly, no and yes.

mwaf, just to make sure you know which question Barchan's "no" goes to...

You can only have one leader at a time. The Leader box is kind of like a bit-switch. There's a leader or there isn't. Never more than one.

When I'm looking to get a leader I check three things.
1) is my unit elite (I want a yes to this question)
2) does my unit have an asterisk (I want a no)
3) do I currently have a leader (I want a no)

	19-08-2002 21:08									#24
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reefer addict,

There is one other factor in this equation I didn't see mentioned: the leader generation chance is halved for defenders. So if your elite infantry were primarily winning defensive battles, the chances of getting a leader were 1/32 (or 1/24 with the HE).

I love the naming feature. I like having the King's Bowmen, the Companions, the Praetorian Guards, etc. running around.

-Arrian

	19-08-2002 21:20									#25
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i had this happen while on the attack with elite infantry that had not already produced a leader.
it sounds to me like it was a string of terrible luck and not in the programming.
but i will name all my * units from now on just to be sure because i had atleast 80 fights and no leaders after going with the default name, but i got the usual amount of leaders with othere types of units that were renamed after generating leaders.

and i do know how leaders generation works, no more than one if it has made a leader, must not possess a leader and * units wont create any.

thx all

	19-08-2002 23:49									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian There is one other factor in this equation I didn't see mentioned: the leader generation chance is halved for defenders. So if your elite infantry were primarily winning defensive battles, the chances of getting a leader were 1/32 (or 1/24 with the HE).

Ah, interesting Arrian. I've been studying this leader & army business for a while now, and I didn't know that (though it does fit my experience). Where'd you get that tidbit?


reefer addict,

I can't remember if we've already asked you this, but do you have a .SAV file from just before this string of bad luck?

	20-08-2002 00:06									#27
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Redbird,

It was posted by one of the Firaxis guys. I don't remember exactly where, though. I'm pretty sure it was in the strategy forum... we had a lot of discussion about Great Leader generation. I'm sure about the info, though, this isn't a "I think I saw somebody say..."

-Arrian

	20-08-2002 00:21									#28
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I remember back in the early days of my current game, AZZKIKKA and HorseyDude. Next game I'll go with more historical names...

Also I noticed that AZZKIKKA, my Swordsman did better in battle than most swordsman. Does a unit become more uber when it creates a leader?

The other problem I have is being dry of leaders, Im sending Elite Cavalry up against elite Riflemen, fortified in cities upwards of size 12. I expect that if my Cavalry survives this he should have a GL! For the entire war so far I havent gotten one, and it was the reason I started the war!

	20-08-2002 01:08									#29
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Fighter,

First, an elite unit that spawns a leader doesn't get any bonuses - it will fight like any other elite unit.

Second, I think most of us would agree that throwing elite Cavalry at elite riflemen in cities is a BAD IDEA. This is a waste of your elites. Baby them! Lead with your veterans, and save your elites for battles you are pretty sure you will win (there is no "guaranteed win" in CivIII combat). The difficulty of a battle has no bearing whatsoever on leader generation. Therefore, using an elite cavalry on a 1hp longbowman will give you the same chance of a leader as attacking that fortified rifleman in the enemy's capitol city.

-Arrian

	20-08-2002 04:02									#30
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quote: Originally posted by RedBird Ah, interesting Arrian. I've been studying this leader & army business for a while now, and I didn't know that (though it does fit my experience). Where'd you get that tidbit?

When the news came out that an elite could only create on GL prior to an upgrade, we sorta went nuts on Firaxis asking for clarification... I forget, but either Soren or Mike B. responded, and gave the dope on how it all works (including fiinal confirmation that Armies could not do so... boo hoo ) I think it was also out of that discussion that they came up with the * and naming.