04-01-2003 04:32									#61
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Darsnan: I notice you are setting up the game for the Multiplayer Kerianseray (who seems to have disappeared) but I have no experience in setting up a game and certainly not tournament game.
So I would be obliged if you would do the honours but do the other one first, there's no hurry.

I thought about joining the other game but when they got four signed up I didn't volunteer. Now that Kerianseray has not responded, should I jump in. Are you already building a 3 player, in which case never mind.

	04-01-2003 05:04									#62
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Heah Herc,
if you want to jump in that other game where Kerianseray has disappeared, I'd say go ahead and post, and if the others accept, your in. Just when you post, give your SMAC Faction preference so that if the others accept I can immediately start setting up the game. I haven't started setting up anything as I haven't gotten answers from all the players yet (no sense in starting in one direction, only to have to backtrack later), so no prob there. I will also start setting up our game now. You should have it later this evening. FYI.

D

	04-01-2003 20:21									#63
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

OK have posted in the other thread.
Re this H2H, should we send passwords to Smhfan86 or apply the rule about default. I don't envisage not being around by the way, but it's a back-up facility.
As a name for this game for email purposes how about capers or hoodlums

	05-01-2003 00:16									#64
	Tired of ads?

no need to send me any passwords(just make them up and write them down).

this is an h2h tourney, so no one will be taking over for dissapeared persons.

if the person dissapears for a long enough time, then it will count as a loss.

refusing to play without a good explanation counts as -2 points.

forgeting ur password counts as a loss, so write it down on paper.

	05-01-2003 00:49									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules As a name for this game for email purposes how about capers or hoodlums

Capers? Hoodlums? What are you trying to say about the ethics of Provost Darsnan?
Anyways, I sent you the turn last nite: did you get it?

D

	14-06-2003 10:36									#66
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I concede my match with SMH to him. A poor starting position did me in. Them's the breaks I suppose.

	14-06-2003 22:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic I concede my match with SMH to him. A poor starting position did me in. Them's the breaks I suppose.

I suspect that that may be the case among most of us. Against smh I had a 1-1 record and the difference in the two games was that in each, one of us got a markedly better starting position .

With similarly skilled players, the start can decide the game. I'd ALMOST prefer that we find a common, fair map to play on but that can take away a lot of the fun of exploring.

	14-06-2003 22:58									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber With similarly skilled players, the start can decide the game. I'd ALMOST prefer that we find a common, fair map to play on but that can take away a lot of the fun of exploring.

Heah Flubber,

In the CGN H2H series, each game is set up by a CMN, thus ensuring an even start for both participants. FYI.


D

	15-06-2003 06:06									#69
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A common map would eliminate an explorers advantage, and give it to a non explorer. i.e. the UofP would be even stronger over someone like the Hive, and the UofP's already strong enough.

Even if a CMN made a map, the opinion of fair is very difficult to define, because of the different play styles of players for the same factions.

i.e. how far is too far to place a Hive/Drone player from a UofP player? etc, etc.

	15-06-2003 06:15									#70
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quote: Originally posted by smhfan86 Even if a CMN made a map, the opinion of fair is very difficult to define, because of the different play styles of players for the same factions.

Heah smh,
very good, thoughtful reply: in the CGN H2H series, you can protest your starting position and give reasons why you think your position is unfair, and it is then reviewed by a "Board" of senior players who then determines whether, in each of their own opinions, if the Starting Position in question is fair or not. FYI.


D

	15-06-2003 07:51									#71
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quote: Originally posted by smhfan86 A common map would eliminate an explorers advantage, and give it to a non explorer. i.e. the UofP would be even stronger over someone like the Hive, and the UofP's already strong enough. Even if a CMN made a map, the opinion of fair is very difficult to define, because of the different play styles of players for the same factions. i.e. how far is too far to place a Hive/Drone player from a UofP player? etc, etc.

smh

All true-- but a computer generated start can be grossly bad while a CMN can at least ensure similar terrain. In my drone game with you I was almost certain that I would lose right from the start. IIRC I had ZERO rainy squares in sight and had about a 20 tile island.I believe you were similarly " blessed" in the previous game. If the base terrain provides double or triple the resources, you are pretty shafted ( maybe one of the super-elite players could turn it around against an reasonably experienced player)

I actually don't mind the relative placements that much. If I am the UoP and I know an enemy is close, I can get to non lin and HEC as quick as anyone else and be a very tough nut to crack. I know people see the UoP as a builder but I don't see them as a pushover to a momentum rush

	16-06-2003 13:57									#72
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Of course, if by the time you find the enemy is close they've already gone on that beeline and you still don't even have Mobile or Applied, as with what happened with me against SMH, you're pretty screwed.

I think I have to agree with Darsnan. A CMN created map is going to be fairer than a computer generated map regardless, though how fair exactly will of course depend on the factions and individual strategies.

	20-06-2003 04:07									#73
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Hi, I've just rediscovered how addictive this game is. If anyone wants to play SMAC then I'm hungry for a game or a few.

I'll play University or Gaians.

Re the starting point issue... How about if players generate three games, play them simultaneously, and each player may reject one of them after 5-10 turns?
You play the remaining game or games out to the end.
You won't end up with balanced positions, but it should prune out the *oh-my-god* starts.

Still, the most fun I've ever had in SMAC was turning one of those around in PBEM. Planetbusters, the great leveller...

	20-06-2003 04:12									#74
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Hey Curiosity,
Yeah, SMAC(X) is addictive, and playing against other humans adds huge new dimensions to the game! Here is another spot for H2H Games, and there are always new games forming at this website, as well. FYI.

D

	21-06-2003 22:16									#75
	Increase Your PM Length

Static players with static build and tech strats are hurt more in computer generated games. Dynamic players will not assume they can build to their hearts content without any AI or humans nearby, or that they their human counterpart is close enough for an early rush.

I was too static in my game as UofP with Flubber, and thought I could build up, however, if I had explored earlier, I could've found him early and beelined to non-lin.

So part of it was the map, but a lot of it was my mistake.

It's easy to blame the map or the placement of players when you play a static game.

	22-06-2003 00:25									#76
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Darsnan, thanks for the info. I've never been to CGN before, but it seems very active. I love the academy section, too.

Perhaps we'll meet in the H2H.

	22-06-2003 04:14									#77
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quote: Originally posted by smhfan86 Static players with static build and tech strats are hurt more in computer generated games. Dynamic players will not assume they can build to their hearts content without any AI or humans nearby, or that they their human counterpart is close enough for an early rush. I was too static in my game as UofP with Flubber, and thought I could build up, however, if I had explored earlier, I could've found him early and beelined to non-lin. So part of it was the map, but a lot of it was my mistake. It's easy to blame the map or the placement of players when you play a static game.

All true but in my game with the drones I was NOT static . .

If I replayed I can't think what I would do different since on the first try I went for centauri ecology first and then doc flex to get off my island. This was a variation from my normal Ind auto beeline but the position demanded it. I am flexible but here even doing the right thing meant that it was far far too long before I had any good productive tiles and even longer to plant my third and 4th bases.

Bottom line is that there are starts you can recover from and situations that favor builders or which favor explorers momentum players. Those you live with . . . but the computer can also give super-horrendous starts which can totally spoil the game.

	22-06-2003 07:25									#78
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Is this tourney still going? If so, anyone want a tourney game?

	22-06-2003 10:04									#79
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Curiosity Darsnan, thanks for the info. I've never been to CGN before, but it seems very active. I love the academy section, too. Perhaps we'll meet in the H2H.

NP on the info - I think you'll find most of the players @ CGN are more than willing to help each other out: better players means more intense, and enjoyable competition!
As far as an H2H is concerned, why you will shortly be able to play an ersatz me, as I will be releasing the July CGN Challenge. The primary Challenge will be SMAX, however because I like as much feedback from players as possible (to make my future Scenarios even that much more fun to play), and with the realization that a lot of people only have SMAC, why I will post a SMAC version as well. Should be out in about a week. FYI.


D

	22-06-2003 19:55									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber All true but in my game with the drones I was NOT static . . If I replayed I can't think what I would do different since on the first try I went for centauri ecology first and then doc flex to get off my island. This was a variation from my normal Ind auto beeline but the position demanded it. I am flexible but here even doing the right thing meant that it was far far too long before I had any good productive tiles and even longer to plant my third and 4th bases. Bottom line is that there are starts you can recover from and situations that favor builders or which favor explorers momentum players. Those you live with . . . but the computer can also give super-horrendous starts which can totally spoil the game.

You're assuming I had a good start Flubber, which was not the case. I was cut off from expanding by three factions, one of whom was hostile and I had to defend against. You got doc flex and moved to the Jungle probably 50 years ahead of me. Plus, you had the extra energy from the sunny thing.

If you think the drones are only good close to an opponent, then why did you pick them in a randomly generated map?

If you were worried about being left behind in the tech department, you were actually ahead of me in that game, and the only way I got close to catching up to you, was by stealing from you.

In summary:

You got to doc flex ahead of me and colonized the Jungle, with room to expand.
I had no room to expand, because I was trapped by the AI.
You had the extra energy from the sunny thing.
You had a tech lead on me.
I had to battle Santiago, who hated me from the start, expending a lot of resources to hold my position.
I was the Hive with no room to grow for a very long time, and not the UofP.

I didn't get much from Miriam, because she was the Believers. The Gaians hated me because I was planned, and stopped trading with me.

I didn't get energy from my agreements with either, because I was the Hive.

I had a far worse start than you, Flubber.

Your answer to how you could have played differently to win: Protect your bases from foil probes earlier. I stole a ton of techs from you. If they were protected, I would've taken even longer to get to non-lin, and thus, have been unable to conquer your bases in the jungle.

	22-06-2003 20:54									#81
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What 'sunny thing' gives extra energy? There is no bonus associated with Sunny Mesa. Do you mean Pholus Ridge?

	22-06-2003 22:57									#82
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quote: Originally posted by smhfan86 I had a far worse start than you, Flubber. .

Wow I thought being stuck on an island with one moist square and one monolith TOTAL was bad. yes I had the uranium flats -- whoopee . . . when it takes forever to grow to size 2 thats little help

Bottom line is that this is the worst starting position I have ever had in about 40 Pbem games and duels and the ONLY time I have EVER mentioned starting position as a reason for a defeat. Its one which I would not expect to recover from against any competent human opposition ( yes assuming they had a halfway reasonable start).
That you recovered from a "far worse start" is a salute to you and i guess I should concede your superior skills

	23-06-2003 08:02									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Is this tourney still going? If so, anyone want a tourney game?

It seems to be, and yes!

I can now play AC or AX, and I'll let you have first pick of the factions. (I want a few hours to check out the crossfire factions anyway... is it me, or do they kinda suck?)

Post your preferences, and I'll start the game. Then we just need an official number.

Darsnan,

I now have the x-pack, so I'll definitely give the challenge a try.

	23-06-2003 09:18									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Curiosity (I want a few hours to check out the crossfire factions anyway... is it me, or do they kinda suck?)

they are ok--- some are considered very weak (cult-) while the drones and aliens are considered very strong-- although some see the drones as weak

Some of the abilities are more exagerated in the new factions and you have to tailor your play to the faction a bit more

	29-06-2003 00:49									#85
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ttt, before this falls off the edge.

And I'm still looking for a tournament 1v1 here, if anyone's interested?

	29-06-2003 00:55									#86
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Curiosity And I'm still looking for a tournament 1v1 here, if anyone's interested?

All right, Curiosity, I'll bite. Whatcha got in mind, anything special?

D

	29-06-2003 05:23									#87
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Excellent.

Well, I'm just loking for a normal, crossfire PBEM - settings as posted at the start of the thread. I guess this would be game 04 of the series? If you have anything interesting in mind, then I could be swayed...

As we don't need a CMN, if you take first choice of faction and post your e-mail address, then I'll create the game.

	29-06-2003 05:30									#88
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Curiosity As we don't need a CMN, if you take first choice of faction and post your e-mail address, then I'll create the game.

What, you don't want my Alphax.txt, with all its little critters I've created, being imprinted upon this game!?!

Anyways, we could do an Alien Duel, in which case I'd take the Guardians. Or if its just a regular SMAX game, why I'll take the Hive.


D

	29-06-2003 18:31									#89
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Hehe, I have a couple of critters of my own created, but your alphax is a little extreme.
Though, one of these days you should create a mod tournament. That would interesting.

I prefer to play the human factions right now, as I'm playing both the aliens in a game vs Flubber, and I want to get the feel of the new factions. I've elected to be the drones, and set you to go first as Chairman Darnan.

I've sent the game to your dnandal@twcny.rr.com acount, I assume it's still active.

	19-07-2003 21:25									#90
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haven't checked here in awhile, but i assume darsnan and curiosity have started a smax game, 04, with curiosity as the drones and darsnan as the hive, right?

if you could post whether or not the game has actually begun, or been trashed here, that'd be great, then I could update the games in progress page if it has started.