20-08-2002 07:51									#91
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I am pretty sure you just called me a loser and in response I want to simply say that I am not Harry Turtledove. Whoever the hell he is.

Nah! I'm talking about the legion of Southern apologists who will bend the very fabric of reality in order to prove that the cause of "Secessia" was noble one completely unrelated to slavery.

	20-08-2002 08:16									#92
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Of course it wasn't unrelated to slavery. It was definitely related to slavery. And six hundred thousand Americans, mostly white, died in a war that freed the slaves so that they could spend the next 100+ years being treated as subhumans by Americans both North and South of the Mason Dixon line.

I can't bestow nobility on either side of this war myself.

	20-08-2002 08:41									#93
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I suppose that phrasing was not a magnificent example of clear diction. Ahem. "Yeesh! If Turtledove thinks the North was that evil/psychotic, why did the Real United States of America, in the real history timeline, not side with Germany? The Union became far more solidly in favor of federal power after the Civil War, even in the North. Wouldn't a humbled North, without a victorious Civil War to give rise to a stronger sense of country, be if anything more in favor of "states rights," and therefore in Turtledove's mind, be even less likely to side with Germany? How does he justify this ridiculous assertion?"

	21-08-2002 18:13									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Turtledove has written a series of alternate history books based on the possibility of a Confederate victory in the Civil War. In the 20th century the North becomes an ally of Germany allowing the Confederacy to save humanity from the Union cause once again. His works are truely a collection of garbage concocted by a sick mind.

Especially considering that it would be far more likely for the South to ally with the Nazis.

	21-08-2002 18:19									#95
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That is a blatant troll. Try to be more subtil next time.

	21-08-2002 18:19									#96
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BTW, new book out about Gettysburg, Gettysburg: A test of courage, by Noah Andre Trudeau. It looks at the battle from the average soldier's point of view. There's a review on Salon.com.

	21-08-2002 19:48									#97
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Especially considering that it would be far more likely for the South to ally with the Nazis.

Doubtful. The Confederates would likely feel somesort of gratitude to the French and English for saving thier arses if they had been able to wring somesort of official recognition for the CSA out of them.

	21-08-2002 21:12									#98
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What was frightening about Lee's advance into Pennsylvania, was that many officers and soldiers kidnapped blacks with no effort to determine whether they were freed people, or slave fugitives.

I have not been able to get accurate statistics on how many Pennsylvanian blacks were kidnapped, and sold into slavery by the Confederate officers though.


Ironically, the Confederate offensive was also an effort to rally more soldiers for the South, by trying to appeal to a number of Pennsylvanian Democrats. But, this failed to rally any significant number of Pennsylvanians to the Confederate flag, as they only saw Lee's army for what it was -- not a liberating army, but an invading army.

	21-08-2002 21:14									#99
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Doubtful. The Confederates would likely feel somesort of gratitude to the French and English for saving thier arses if they had been able to wring somesort of official recognition for the CSA out of them.

I think racial sympathies would have won out in the end. Remember, the UK was the hated enemy of the US until the 1890s, and all of a sudden we're buddies.