19-08-2002 07:39									#1
	Bunch of ideas Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

These ideas could take shape as the committee that might (hopefully) be formed to help reshape ourselves, or by amendment process, etc.

Italics are COL quotes

Please refer to each idea by number.

1) Any unofficial polls must be labeled as so within the first post. Change the requirement from unofficial polls needing to be labeled unofficial, to official polls needing to be labeled official.

2) Allow the creator of a successfully added amendment to bypass the 'repoll' allowing the creator to amend his or her amendment before the 21 day wait.

3) Remove this absurd line for the COL: They are required to conduct polls in order to interrupt the people’s will. under ministers.

4) Once the turns are played the president shall send out the save game file via e-mail only to all the members of his cabinet and any Apolytonia member who specially request it. The Historian and Reporter must receive saves from the end of each turnchat. to be completely removed, replaced only that the public have access to the latest saves, and archived saves, after every turn session has ended.

5) The President is required to host at least one turnchat a week. to be completely removed. VP may host only sessions in a 7 day period, and there is nothing wrong with that.

6) If a member is elected three times into the same office, that member must run for a different office in his fourth term, or not run at all. to be removed. If anyone feels that an office holder isn't doing their duty, it is their duty to see someone else to the position.

7) Removal of reporters from COL? (They are citizens, not officials of any sort at all. This relates to #4)

This is by no means a complete list, just all I can think of at the moment, and enough to terminally fill a thread if people are so inclined.

CERTAINLY feel free to add your own.

	19-08-2002 07:41									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

All of those ideas are good ones, except perhaps number 6... It'll be a real shame to see some officials go after their three terms are up, but I think it's a generally good idea... maybe add a clause so that they can 'sit out' one administration and then come back for another or something, but I think ti's a good idea to get some 'new blood' in some time, through some way.

Besides, that, though .

-- adaMada

	19-08-2002 07:57									#3
	Support Apolyton

I like that list generally, but we should keep the housekeeping seperate from the big issues, the only one that I see here is #6. That demands its own thread as the issue of term limits is very important. For the record I think it should read "A person may not serve more than three terms consectively in any elected office, unless for the fourth and later term they run unopposed". This is mwia's plan that I saw in smac demo game and I think it will fit here. Obviously if jobs get hard to fill we can revisit this issue, but until that time we should stick with the term limits unless 2/3 of the people desire otherwise. To include it right now could well cause the whole list to fail I suspect. The rest of the list is very good and I suggest that you start formalizing it so we can get the amendment done as soon as possible.
Aggie

	19-08-2002 07:57									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Looks good. I agree with adaMada about number 6, though. It's very hard to defeat an incumbent, especially for someone who's never held a ministerial position before, and we should give others a chance.

	19-08-2002 08:05									#5
	Tired of ads?

Aggie, this list would not be a single vote. I am not sure what my opinion is on 6, I just know it's been mentioned.

	19-08-2002 14:55									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

hi ,

, get to Uber Isle , with one settler , worker and two units , ....

have a nice day

	19-08-2002 17:55									#7
	Remove this text

8) All amendment polls must show a quote of the amendment to be added, however this might be altered due to the COL styling.
(I have seen at least one amendment with no exact wording whatsoever that has passed)

	19-08-2002 17:59									#8
	Re: Bunch of ideas Suffering from ads?

quote: They are required to conduct polls in order to interrupt the people’s will.

I thought this was a typo, but it IS actually in there!

Sir Ralph: We need to stop turnchats becausee (insert appropriate intelligent comment here)

Darkness' Edge: No! I haven't had the chance to go to one yet! Let's keep them going so we can all participate in one.

MrWIA: Hi guys, stop talking about important stuff you want to do and go to this thread to vote on this non-issue for me.



Epi - it all looks good. :b I agree with Aggie about the 6th, but then it was me that said that, so I guess I should agree.

	19-08-2002 18:37									#9
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9) Horribly vague If a poll is an alternative poll, offering alternatives to decisions made in a previous poll, then it also must be conducted at least 3 weeks following the first poll, or be immediately deemed invalid. replaced with something like If a poll is to serve as an alternative or replacement for a previous poll, the nit must also be conducted at least 3 weeks following the first poll, or be immediately deemed invalid. (the creator of the first poill would be able to bypass this claus by #2)

	19-08-2002 19:16									#10
	Re: Re: Bunch of ideas Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I thought this was a typo, but it IS actually in there!

I am fairly sure that was intended to say interpret

[roleplay]REMOVE REPORTERS FROM THE CoL?!?!?!

You MUST be joking. It SAYS they are citizens right in there. You must be out of your minds! We at the Gazette sit here and slave away for YOU and this is how you repay us? By removing the only shred of official power we can hold over the Gov't?! Have YOU ever tried to get an interview with one of the officials? It is virtually impossible without that 'serve as a watchdog for the government' clause that we can hold over their head! Cease this madness or face trying get infromation yourselves! [/roleplay]

It is a harmless little section, but if you want...

	19-08-2002 19:22									#11
	Got spare money?

* MrWhereItsAt hastily removes his default support for #7.

	19-08-2002 19:47									#12
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Lol. The only thing the reporters clause does, is define the reporter for the clause that requires the reporters be given the latest save, which is obsolete.

In my state it is still the law that shotguns must be brought to church on sundays in case of native american attack.

	19-08-2002 20:04									#13
	Remove this text

We need to keep those, if nothing else so we can look back from our enlightened eras and laugh in the future. In the case of our oldest law, the Treaty of Waitangi, everyone looks back and just shakes their heads.

Some cry.

Everyone gets pissed.


The law is a ass, and it is necessary to remind people of that frequently.

OK, I am raving now - it's 3am.

	19-08-2002 20:07									#14
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[roleplay]

'Reporters (Newspapers):'(the Gazette)
'These independent agents'
This takes care of your problem with them being not official. It STATES we are independant!

'are bestowed the great privilege of keeping the people informed on the happenings of the game and government, as well as the general environment around us. They should strive to obtain accurate facts, and state things how they are, free of political involvement.'

Again, readvocating that this is FREE OF POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT. But we are getting to the juice of the Section:

'The reporters act as a window into the game, serve as a government watchdog, and are general tool of the people.'

'Serve as a government watchdog' How do you intend to keep the government honest without having our services with OFFICIAL power to have access to government information, to portray that information to the public. Remove this clause and you will open the government to hiding information from the public and have no means to stop it. The Court you say? Well, who decides how much the judges are paid? The Cabinet. Can you truly trust someone on the payroll of the government to actually serve as their check and balance? I say no. We must preserve the rights of reporters to access official information, and therefore the rights of the people to know. Yes, a save is publicly posted now, but how much of this game is truly in the save? Vote no to item 7. Are we really that desperate to remove a few lines? Will it make it any easier to read? No! Will it remove our official rights to know government information not included in the save? Yes! Cease this nonsense, or I may be forced to take drastic measures. How long can you live with a strike? For we cannot work without that clause.
[/roleplay]

	19-08-2002 21:23									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

all except 6 are good

	19-08-2002 22:22									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Good ideas. We need our CoL to be more clear and precise

However, about the term-limit issue : while I'm against term-limits (as long as someone does a good job and is liked, why firing him ?), these were decided by a vote.

Epistax : you should make a separate poll on the term-limit thing, because it's an important issue, and you can't simply bundle it with the rest (or your poll will quickly be threadjacked to this hot issue only)

	19-08-2002 22:26									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Very well-- although I do not mean to group these together except to gain ideas. Perhaps the rest would be able to fit under a single multi poll... if that makes sense.

I really would like some NEW suggestions as well.

	19-08-2002 22:30									#18
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This looks good. Good work Epistax.

	21-08-2002 14:35									#19
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hi ,

intresting stuff , , ...

we should get a col that is simple , justified , easy , well , , the US has these little books where the constition is in , it is written on 20 pages , 4 x 2.5 inch , ....we should be able to have our col like that !

MrWIA , the memebers of the government should also carry the avatar they have , all the time , ...it comes with the job and they should be proud of it , ...

huh , that should go in the col also , ...

as for the rest we can finf ways to please most citizens in the col , there shall always be some who dont agree , ...but dont worry , ...

, send them to panag , ....heheh , they shall be re-educated true the power of the great banana

have a nice day

	26-09-2002 08:57									#20
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I too must voice my distate for #6. Did it ever occur to anyone that some do not run because they do not think that they can win, that they are afraid they will hurt their party? The DIA has been reluctant in the past to run against Uber because of this. The term limits are neccesary to avoid dictatorships at a position.

	26-09-2002 09:58									#21
	Support Apolyton

proposal for recumbent officials:

as you can see in our (our asi mean US that i live in) govt system, good presidential may not run for third time because of stupid republicans who feared another democratic FDR type that would dominate in election. (ironically, they couldnt repeal wat they created when they wanted Reagan to run for third term HAH!) Also in the same country, a dumb recumbent can easily be re-elected as congreeman and senate cause they is no term-limit and they can use their recumbent advantage to win elections. So I propose a balance, whiel this may not work for US govt (who knows it might fix recumbency problem in congress and i'll be famous for suggesting ) i think my compromise of no term limit vs term limit solution may work here.

There IS a term limit. Set amount to be decided by agreement upon discusiion. for example sake, lets say four terms.

President Joe, an excellent leader serves four terms. his term limt has ended. he must resign his spot as president now. a new president rises to power. He serves. He may or may not be re-elected. either way, two (or any number decided) full term has passed since Joe's last term. Joe's "waiver" period is over. He may now run again.