20-08-2002 01:00									#31
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Niether were right Red, Sneak has at least owned up to that. His personality here at least says to me he was being honest in the fact he would have never done it. An attack on your family Red is simply wrong, you simply can not ignore that fact as you seem to want to do. Sneak blew out justifiable and has since explained himself and admitted it was over the top. Insulting one's family is equally appalling to most if not all the people here you Red? This situation was resolved a long time ago we all agree niether was right. Well most of us seems thier are two holdouts...

I wasn't saying an attack on his family is right, but they're just words. Making personal threats is really, really wrong

	20-08-2002 01:02									#32
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Asher you are rude inconsiderate and immature. Have you ever heard a parent call thier child a bastard child?

No, but I also don't see most parents going around and calling their child stupid either. Some children are stupid, some children are bastard childs (illegit. child is the PC term these days)

quote: Do you even hear that word used anymore?

Actually I do.

quote: You obviously used it as an attack on Steak your just not man enough to admit it.

What the hell? Of course I used it as an attack on Sneak (Steak?). That was the point. It wasn't an attack on his family. It wasn't a nice way to say it, but it wasn't supposed to be nice -- I was pissed off at him and he was pissed off at me, things are said.

The fact that he's running around crying about how people are attacking his family either shows just how stupid he is that he can't read things in context, or that he knew he could get away with it because of morons like you andd Lancer who don't care to look into what was really said and just read "attack on family -- that is bad! did you kill the ****er, Sneak, did you kill him?!"

quote: Stop attacking family members you lamer. Especially innocent kids your a joke buddy the worst kind.

But you just said yourself it was an attack on Sneak. Hello blackice, "reality dictates" you pay attention to what you're saying.

	20-08-2002 01:06									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

i sense another week coming up

	20-08-2002 01:07									#34
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Ming doesn't seem to respond to requests asking for an account to be restricted voluntarily, so there has to be other ways of going about it.

	20-08-2002 01:09									#35
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Let it go dude..

	20-08-2002 01:20									#36
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What does anyone's child have to do with these forums Asher?

Now if you had said he was a bastard you have attacked him, you did not you said he had a bastard child. That is talking about his child Asher wakeup man….

The term is rude and inconsiderate period, it is not used has not been used in years. The reason most think it is derogatory any parent surely does.

As for the rest don't try and justify it for me, for me it is clear you involved an innocent child of a poster to "piss" him off as you say.

Try not to do that is simply not right and uncalled for.

Red neither was right period...enough said

Why get banned Asher, just take that leave you were talking about. You obviously need it, it will do you good Asher.

	20-08-2002 01:24									#37
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Now there's a thought...

However I think I've got the idea. Some twit picks on Sneak's family and gets threatened with bodily harm. Yes?
Well, I've always had a problem with such threats. The problem is that the internet prevents folks from reaching out and touching someone hiding behind it and making comments about loved ones. I've met Sneak, gotten to know him, and I'll tell you this, the twit got off light w/ a few threats.

But you're right, I haven't read the thread, I just have confidence in SuperSneak and have replied to attacks against my family as well. I know the drill.

	20-08-2002 01:27									#38
	Re: Read the thread first? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Now there's a thought... However I think I've got the idea. Some twit picks on Sneak's family and gets threatened with bodily harm. Yes? Well, I've always had a problem with such threats. The problem is that the internet prevents folks from reaching out and touching someone hiding behind it and making comments about loved ones. I've met Sneak, gotten to know him, and I'll tell you this, the twit got off light w/ a few threats. But you're right, I haven't read the thread, I just have confidence in SuperSneak and have replied to attacks against my family as well. I know the drill.

No, Sneak threatened to contact Asher's parents and tell them he's bisexual. Which is worse than a threat of bodily harm as he could feasably do it. Forcibly outing someone to their families is a dispicable thing to do.

	20-08-2002 01:27									#39
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quote: Originally posted by blackice What does anyone's child have to do with these forums Asher?

When a man is going on and on about what a great man he is, it's fair game to look at his "accomplishments" and see how wonderful they actually are.

The comment was aimed at Sneak because he had the child with someone he wasn't even sure he'd be with in the near future, and that's highly irresponsible and not something a real man would do in my books. That's what the comment was about, he chose to believe it was a personal attack on his son for whatever reasons he has. The context was a slam against Sneak, and it was a slam against Sneak, I could have chosen far better words for it, but I was pissed off at the time. I was hoping that Sneak (in all of his wisdom with the various liberal arts degrees) could have figured out how to read in context and would see what was meant, but he couldn't do that.

quote: That is talking about his child Asher wakeup man….

It was talking about his child from the angle of being one of his accomplishments of being "a man".

If it was a personal attack against his child, I would have actually said something to insult the child rather than describe the condition between his parents when he was born. The kid has nothing to do with that, which is why it boggles my mind that he cries about it being a personal attack against his son. It's more like it hurts Sneak's ego when someone brings it to his attention.

quote: Red neither was right period...enough said

Well, let's see here.
I said he had a son in an unstable relationship by using the term bastard child. Apparently this isn't very PC, so this warrants a personal threat against me to out me to my parents. He not only uttered this threat ONCE, but multiple times. It may not seem like it's a big deal to you, but believe me it is...

Yeah, that's fair. 1 week each, that makes sense, doesn't it? Give me a ****ing break.

quote: Why get banned Asher, just take that leave you were talking about. You obviously need it, it will do you good Asher.

Because as long as I know there's scum like Sneak around who will talk negatively about me behind my back I'm going to want to respond to it. That's why I asked Ming to restrict my account for at least a month but he didn't seem to care for that request.

	20-08-2002 01:31									#40
	Re: Read the thread first? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Now there's a thought... However I think I've got the idea. Some twit picks on Sneak's family and gets threatened with bodily harm. Yes? Well, I've always had a problem with such threats. The problem is that the internet prevents folks from reaching out and touching someone hiding behind it and making comments about loved ones. I've met Sneak, gotten to know him, and I'll tell you this, the twit got off light w/ a few threats. But you're right, I haven't read the thread, I just have confidence in SuperSneak and have replied to attacks against my family as well. I know the drill.

Lancer, you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about. Stay the hell out of it.

Sneak took a non-PC comment and began crying that someone was attacking his family, even though it should have been very obvious that was not the intent, and he then made a personal threat which has the very real possibility of majorly ****ing up someone's life. It's worse than the physical threat, because this threat is very real and very easy for him to pull off from a long distance.

	20-08-2002 01:32									#41
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*hugs Asher*

Had to get it in before you get booted again.

	20-08-2002 01:39									#42
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All I will say on this:

SS sent me a PM (won't post it, don't worry) apologizing to me about the incident. While I think it's a big thing to do, I feel that the threat to out Asher to his family (which he did NOT portray as a joke) was inexcusable, and there should be a zero-tolerance policy for such a threat. I would have had him perma-banned for it, and I think Asher had every right to be infuriated over it. Even if he called SS's kid a rotten little sh*t, that doesn't remotely compare to making a threat to do something to somebody in real life. Most message boards take this stuff VERY seriously, and I don't think Apolyton should be different.

I'm very pissed that someone whose presence I value will likely not return over this. But I don't blame him one bit.

Thank you.

	20-08-2002 01:42									#43
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Asher, Prosper was born out of wedlock, but that's been fixed, Suzee and Sneak are married now. Yet you did not refrain from calling Prosper, a really great kid and son of a married couple, "a bastard".

Since the derogatory term is applied to children born out of wedlock and you decided to use it to Sneak, one of his parents, why should you consider it unfair if Sneak falls to your level, contacts your parents, and tells them you are gay? It's true isn't it? Just like Prosper being born out of wedlock is true? Or, if he were to fall to your level and choose a derogatory term, say you were a faggot?

He wouldn't do that I'm sure and I use it only as an example to compare with your use of the term bastard.

	20-08-2002 01:42									#44
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woohoo

Ashers back

there were some threads for you to join in (even a Microsoft thread)

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 01:44									#45
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Lancer:

Calling someone's kid a bastard doesn't remotely compare to making a threat to do something to someone in real life by any stretch of the imagination. It is foolish to even compare the two.

	20-08-2002 01:45									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Asher, Prosper was born out of wedlock, but that's been fixed, Suzee and Sneak are married now. Yet you did not refrain from calling Prosper, a really great kid and son of a married couple, "a bastard".

Apparently you have no idea what bastard means, do you Lancer?

quote: bas·tard Pronunciation Key (bstrd) n. A child born out of wedlock.

Whether or not they got married after (and what a wedding that was!) is not the point.
And there is a difference in connotation between "a bastard" and "a bastard child", and it's no wonder that you and Sneak (and blackice and Chris) enjoy truncating the phrase so it looks like I just called his child a bastard, rather than a bastard child.

quote: Since the derogatory term is applied to children born out of wedlock and you decided to use it to Sneak, one of his parents, why should you consider it unfair if Sneak falls to your level, contacts your parents, and tells them you are gay? It's true isn't it? Just like Prosper being born out of wedlock is true? Or, if he were to fall to your level and choose a derogatory term, say you were a faggot?

They're in completely different leagues.
It's certainly not a nice thing to say, and I would never call his son a bastard in his presence, but in a debate with the father about his manly accomplishment it's fair game if he has a kid in an unstable relationship at the time.

How you can compare this to contacting someone's parents and outting them is beyond me, and it tells me a little bit more of how feeble minded you really are.

	20-08-2002 01:47									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller woohoo Ashers back there were some threads for you to join in (even a Microsoft thread) Jon Miller

I'm not reading the other threads, Jon, I'm here to get banned so it's easier to stay away and try to stand up for myself, given that Sneak (showing how big of a man he is) decided to give a onesided story out.

	20-08-2002 01:48									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov All I will say on this: SS sent me a PM (won't post it, don't worry) apologizing to me about the incident. While I think it's a big thing to do, I feel that the threat to out Asher to his family (which he did NOT portray as a joke) was inexcusable, and there should be a zero-tolerance policy for such a threat. I would have had him perma-banned for it, and I think Asher had every right to be infuriated over it. Even if he called SS's kid a rotten little sh*t, that doesn't remotely compare to making a threat to do something to somebody in real life. Most message boards take this stuff VERY seriously, and I don't think Apolyton should be different. I'm very pissed that someone whose presence I value will likely not return over this. But I don't blame him one bit. Thank you.

I diagree with you over this

it was a threat made in a verbal fight and whlie wrong there was nothing that needed permabanned in it (I think the two week ban was appropriate)

if you permabanned over that you would have to permaban over many other things also, because theings get sad in the heat of the moment that people later regret

and I would like Asher to stay on the board as well, so I agree there

I just think that punishment is a good enough action, permabanning is like the DP and shold only be used in cases of sufficeint seriousness (like if Supersneak had actually done the threat)

as for the brawl, let's put that behind us (it has gotten to serious to be funny and I think it is best to end it)

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 01:48									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov All I will say on this: SS sent me a PM (won't post it, don't worry) apologizing to me about the incident. While I think it's a big thing to do, I feel that the threat to out Asher to his family (which he did NOT portray as a joke) was inexcusable, and there should be a zero-tolerance policy for such a threat. I would have had him perma-banned for it, and I think Asher had every right to be infuriated over it. Even if he called SS's kid a rotten little sh*t, that doesn't remotely compare to making a threat to do something to somebody in real life. Most message boards take this stuff VERY seriously, and I don't think Apolyton should be different. I'm very pissed that someone whose presence I value will likely not return over this. But I don't blame him one bit. Thank you.

Definently agree.

	20-08-2002 01:49									#50
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Boris, The use of the word "bastard" came first?

Asher lives in a glass house and he's throwing stones? Sneak shouldn't throw back because he might break a window.

Ya right.

	20-08-2002 01:51									#51
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while I do not remember the thread in question

and think that it is wrong to continue this discussion (will just cause more hurt feelings)

I think the point was to give the guys some time to cool off

I like both of them, so could everyone leave this subject alone (just don't talk about it)

some feelings were hurt, mistakes were made

it would be best for all if this conversation ended

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 01:52									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Boris, The use of the word "bastard" came first? Asher lives in a glass house and he's throwing stones? Sneak shouldn't throw back because he might break a window. Ya right.

"bastard" and "bastard child" have different connotations, Lancer. Especially when you take into account the phrase "bastard child" was used in a post slamming SNEAK alone, and his accomplishments.

I find it disturbing you either still don't understand this, or you do understand it and are really trying to piss me off.

And you apparently still can't see the difference in saying someone has a bastard child and outting a gay teen to his parents? INCREDIBLE.

	20-08-2002 01:55									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Boris, The use of the word "bastard" came first? Asher lives in a glass house and he's throwing stones? Sneak shouldn't throw back because he might break a window. Ya right.

It doesn't matter if Asher did say it first. If I called you a sh*t-eating son of a whore whose father was a greasy pedophile, that would be worthy of a reprimand, sure. But if you in response threatened to do something to me or my family IRL, that's beyond worthy of reprimand, it's worthy of banning.

Threats to do such things are not jokes, Jon Miller. People have been murdered via internet strangers, so a no-tolerance policy is appropriate. Calling people names is DRAMATICALLY different than threatening to really do something to them. Since Apolyton moderators are not qualified to psychologically evaluate posters who make such threats, IMO they need to take every such threat seriously and deal with it under the assumption it is real.

	20-08-2002 01:58									#54
	The world according to Asher... Tired of ads?

Telling Sneak he has a "bastard child" isn't calling Prosper a bastard.

	20-08-2002 01:59									#55
	Re: The world according to Asher... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Telling Sneak he has a "bastard child" isn't calling Prosper a bastard.

What the hell is wrong with your head?

When you tell a father about his "bastard child", it's clearly talking about the state of wedlock when the child was born.

Calling a person a plain "bastard" is nothing but a derrogatory comment, there is a difference.

Are you intentionally blinding yourself to that difference so you can feel better about your friends' actions, or are you just a ****ing moron? Or both?

	20-08-2002 02:02									#57
	Re: There you go using derogatory terms again Asher. Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Lancer

I'll try to remember to use nicer terms next time I try to get banned.

	20-08-2002 02:04									#58
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Why do I get the feeling that if Supersneak had been young, not American and left-wing, he actually would have been perma-banned?

	20-08-2002 02:05									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Threats to do such things are not jokes, Jon Miller. People have been murdered via internet strangers, so a no-tolerance policy is appropriate. Calling people names is DRAMATICALLY different than threatening to really do something to them. Since Apolyton moderators are not qualified to psychologically evaluate posters who make such threats, IMO they need to take every such threat seriously and deal with it under the assumption it is real.

but in a huge argument people make threats all the time

you can't go permabanning every person who does so (that would be like giving the DP to those who get in fights)

it is only those who act wrongly that shuold be permabanned (those who engage in the most foul crimes get the DP)

while words should be taken seriously, it must be understood that they are jsut words, and people say things when they are angry (including threats)

the proper response is some moderator action, and if supersneak had a habit of making threats against posters I am sure the punishment would be graeter

but he hasn't (this is the first time I am aware of), and there is nothing about him that we know that would suggest that he would act on the threat either

I like it that the apolyton system assumes innocent until proven guilty, and is loath to give people the final cut (I of course think that people should be given a bit more leeway, poor CivNation)

I do not consider threats a joke (Although when I insult people here it is almost always as a joke), but Supersneak has done the time and that is all that is required (and should be given) in the situation

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:05									#60
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quote: When a man is going on and on about what a great man he is, it's fair game to look at his "accomplishments" and see how wonderful they actually are.

Why? Do not bring their family into it. That is easy to understand is it not?
Why not take the time to look at your own, and your own honesty.
Seems to me that he has fewer secrets than you do?
Seems to me he has admitted wrong and tried to be nice to you several times. Seems to me that you are the one milking this (Crying) the loudest here. You took his niceties and threw them in his face and continue to do so. In my books that makes him a better man hands down.

Oh BTW you over use the “crying” thing getting a bit boring that everyone is “crying” who disagrees with you or has something legitimate to say.

You’re still not man enough to admit you called his child a bastard child thus bringing his child into it. Color it any way you like, it was not called for period admit it and move on.