20-08-2002 02:06									#61
	Re: The world according to Asher... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Telling Sneak he has a "bastard child" isn't calling Prosper a bastard.

please Lancer

back down for right now

we don't need the return of conflict

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:07									#62
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Oh, and as for sneak's glorious theory on me using the bastard child comment first, it's FALSE.

Read the thread for yourself.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...0&pagenumber=14

The dialog (in brief)
Sneak:

quote: Who wouldn't...it's the human experience in microcosm. You've got dicks, chicks, ******, hicks, licks...you name it. Old vs. young, gays in denial, lots of "research"...whew. Somebody should print this. And send it to Dave's parents.

quote: 10 seconds to blast off. Little boys aren't so nasty when you piss them off.

About 50 posts later:
I wrote:

quote: Wow, weren't you the one bragging about your "potential six figure income" and how you're such a successful man that you married your wife in Vegas and had a bastard child?

Suddenly all of your glorious theories (Sneak, blackice, Lancer) just came tumbling down when it became clear that Sneak's the one that went and hit REALLY ****ing below the belt, and you guys have the balls to criticize ME for saying he has a bastard child?

Get real!

	20-08-2002 02:09									#63
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Why do I get the feeling that if Supersneak had been young, not American and left-wing, he actually would have been perma-banned?

do oyu know how many people have gotten mad and and threatened posters (much worse than SuperSneak) in apolyton history?

it has happened often, and people have been banned for it (but not permabanned)

and for most it is a one or two time thing

the mods and admins have dealt with this before

it is not some sort of gay or left wing (asher is right wing, BTW) persecution

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:09									#64
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Why? Do not bring their family into it. That is easy to understand is it not?

Posted by blackice on Counterglow.

quote: I bet his parents know already is right. The longer he holds out the harder it will get. Shame he has been raised that he can not talk to them about extreme reality.

Insinuation and passing judgement on people's family is OK then, blackice?

	20-08-2002 02:10									#65
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the conflict has already returned... but Sneak has opted out this time.

Ah well... this thread will get closed soon... where are the mods?

And Asher ... you can always do a DL to argue for MSFT

	20-08-2002 02:10									#66
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You're a reasonable person Blackice.

	20-08-2002 02:12									#67
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JM--I can't recall anyone seriously threatening to do something to someone in real life here, so you're exaggerating.

Nonetheless, SS didn't just make the threat as a passing comment once. He made it several times and indicated he was serious in the threat. There should be NO tolerance for that.

If I threatened to contact Ming's wife, I'd hope he'd ban the hell out of me forever. SS should get the same treatment.

	20-08-2002 02:12									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Oh, and as for sneak's glorious theory on me using the bastard child comment first, it's FALSE. Read the thread for yourself. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...0&pagenumber=14 The dialog (in brief) Sneak: quote: Who wouldn't...it's the human experience in microcosm. You've got dicks, chicks, ******, hicks, licks...you name it. Old vs. young, gays in denial, lots of "research"...whew. Somebody should print this. And send it to Dave's parents. quote: 10 seconds to blast off. Little boys aren't so nasty when you piss them off. About 50 posts later: I wrote: quote: Wow, weren't you the one bragging about your "potential six figure income" and how you're such a successful man that you married your wife in Vegas and had a bastard child? Suddenly all of your glorious theories (Sneak, blackice, Lancer) just came tumbling down when it became clear that Sneak's the one that went and hit REALLY ****ing below the belt, and you guys have the balls to criticize ME for saying he has a bastard child? Get real!

those are the posts that everyone is getting all excited about?

wow you guys (both sides) need to take a chill break

take a step back and look at yourselves

Jon Miller
this would be funny if people I liked were not getting themselves hurt over this

	20-08-2002 02:12									#69
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Read the Counterglow thread, Lancer. Then tell me how reasonable he is.

	20-08-2002 02:13									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller those are the posts that everyone is getting all excited about? wow you guys (both sides) need to take a chill break take a step back and look at yourselves Jon Miller this would be funny if people I liked were not getting themselves hurt over this

Jon, I don't think you understand what it's like for a closeted gay teen to be threatened multiple times by someone (who does have the capability) to out them to the parents.

I'm not exaggerating when I say it's terrifying, and it's (by far) a more real and serious threat than the usual physical threats, not to mention could have far worse consequences...

I'm pissed off that he only got a week for it, I'm pissed off he never even hinted at an apology to me for it, and I'm pissed off that he even had the balls to come here and on counterglow and tell blatant lies to try to excuse his actions, and I'm really pissed off that people like blackice and Lancer rallied behind him and jumped on my case for something that was provoked by Sneak, not vice versa.

	20-08-2002 02:14									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller it is not some sort of gay or left wing (asher is right wing, BTW) persecution Jon Miller

I know Asher's a righty, I was reffering to me! Ming is so mean to me! *sobs*

	20-08-2002 02:15									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov JM--I can't recall anyone seriously threatening to do something to someone in real life here, so you're exaggerating. Nonetheless, SS didn't just make the threat as a passing comment once. He made it several times and indicated he was serious in the threat. There should be NO tolerance for that. If I threatened to contact Ming's wife, I'd hope he'd ban the hell out of me forever. SS should get the same treatment.

and I can recall several instances with real threats

and you have to take into account the feelings involved (they were both royally pissed off), unless you know otherwise, you don't take threats seriously that people make when they are mad if you know it is not in their nature to do what they are threatening

what would you threaten to contact Ming's wife about?

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:19									#73
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JM - I believe the opposite. As I said, moderators are not qualified psychologists who can make the judgement call that such threats are harmless and the person making them has no intention of following through. If they are to err on the side of caution, that caution is harsh treatment of the offending poster. Real people have been murdered by online nutballs, so I don't think it's unrealistic.

It was a hypothetical situation with Ming. I wouldn't ever threaten to contact anyone's family from here, as I think that's an utterly reprehensible threat to make.

	20-08-2002 02:21									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Jon, I don't think you understand what it's like for a closeted gay teen to be threatened multiple times by someone (who does have the capability) to out them to the parents. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's terrifying, and it's (by far) a more real and serious threat than the usual physical threats, not to mention could have far worse consequences... I'm pissed off that he only got a week for it, I'm pissed off he never even hinted at an apology to me for it, and I'm pissed off that he even had the balls to come here and on counterglow and tell blatant lies to try to excuse his actions, and I'm really pissed off that people like blackice and Lancer rallied behind him and jumped on my case for something that was provoked by Sneak, not vice versa.

I admit I do not know that much about your life

I only know a little bit about my own (and a even smaller ammount of some of those arround me)

I knwo that I would have no problem with my parents thinking I am gay (or being told so), even when I am not

he should have appologised for it and (I have not read all the posts involved and do not plan to now) trhe week bans were put in place just to cool you both off (I beleive)

blackice and you have problems and Lancer will stick by his freind, so ignore them

this conflict is not worth it (I think superneak has said that he will not be contacting your parents)

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:24									#75
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Why? Do not bring their family into it. That is easy to understand is it not?

He threatened me about 50 posts earlier with outting me to my parents, so perhaps you should take your righteous hate towards me and direct it towards your buddy SuperSneak?

quote: Seems to me he has admitted wrong and tried to be nice to you several times.

This is bullshit, he has not.

quote: Seems to me that you are the one milking this (Crying) the loudest here. You took his niceties and threw them in his face and continue to do so. In my books that makes him a better man hands down.

He didn't make any niceties, he was trying to cover his ass by telling lies. He told lies which made me look like I randomly called his son a "bastard", which is NOT TRUE. Then you try to use my anger about this against me? Figures.

quote: You’re still not man enough to admit you called his child a bastard child thus bringing his child into it. Color it any way you like, it was not called for period admit it and move on.

HE THREATENED TO OUT ME TO MY ****ING PARENTS.
And as I've said repeatedly, the comment was NOT INTENDED AS AN INSULT TO HIS SON, but as an insult to SNEAK because I was pissed off at him.

	20-08-2002 02:24									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov JM - I believe the opposite. As I said, moderators are not qualified psychologists who can make the judgement call that such threats are harmless and the person making them has no intention of following through. If they are to err on the side of caution, that caution is harsh treatment of the offending poster. Real people have been murdered by online nutballs, so I don't think it's unrealistic. It was a hypothetical situation with Ming. I wouldn't ever threaten to contact anyone's family from here, as I think that's an utterly reprehensible threat to make.

yes, but it is a known response in a verbal fight to thraten the person you are having a verbal fight with

while wrong, it is not something that is super serious (now if it was actually done that would be serious, or if SuperSneak kept doing it)

people on this site have threatened eachother with violence fairly often, what you do to people whoare that upset is that you remove them and hope that they will cool down

that is what was done here

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:26									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I admit I do not know that much about your life I only know a little bit about my own (and a even smaller ammount of some of those arround me) I knwo that I would have no problem with my parents thinking I am gay (or being told so), even when I am not

I wonder if your parents are as conservative (and religious) as mine are? I don't think they'd respond favorably with it. I know for sure my grandparents wouldn't, last time I was at their house the gay pride parade was on TV and my grandfather made a comment about how gays are so useless and he wouldn't mind one bit if someone wiped them off the face of the planet.

So you can probably imagine my aprehension at the possibility of some ******* from the internet outting me to my family.

He has since said he won't carry through with that threat, but that's enough for me to give me a wakeup call and scared the **** out of me, so I'm trying to leave communities like Apolyton. And it's hard to do without Ming restricting my account.

	20-08-2002 02:27									#78
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my parents are fairly right wing (use to be more so)

they would hate it and respond negatively to me, I just would not care if they did so

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:29									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller yes, but it is a known response in a verbal fight to thraten the person you are having a verbal fight with while wrong, it is not something that is super serious (now if it was actually done that would be serious, or if SuperSneak kept doing it)

Sneak DID keep doing it, he used the threat several times, and his tone was certainly serious. I believed he was serious.

There is a difference between a "I will beat you!" comment and a "I am going to use the information on your Web site to look up your parents' residence in Vancouver and mail them transcripts of postings showing them you are a bisexual."

Doesn't the specificity of the latter send a chill down your spine? It creeps the hell out of me and I take it very seriously.

	20-08-2002 02:31									#80
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I admit that my postition with my parents is somwhat unique

it is hard to explain (it is related to their divorce)

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:32									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Sneak DID keep doing it, he used the threat several times, and his tone was certainly serious. I believed he was serious. There is a difference between a "I will beat you!" comment and a "I am going to use the information on your Web site to look up your parents' residence in Vancouver and mail them transcripts of postings showing them you are a bisexual." Doesn't the specificity of the latter send a chill down your spine? It creeps the hell out of me and I take it very seriously.

he threatened numerous times in the course of a single argument, not the same thing

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:34									#82
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What's the difference???!!!

And who cares if it was only once...the seriousness of it was enough. He made a very specific threat, not an off-the-cuff statement. It was a pre-meditated threat to do something IRL that he PERSISTED with even after Asher had called him on how seriously he took it.

	20-08-2002 02:39									#83
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Well, a gay ol time in Sneaks thread.

To sum up, I'm glad he had such a good train trip.

	20-08-2002 02:41									#84
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look at this

quote: Well...I just want to make it clear I have no issue with your sexuality, Asher. But I think you'd be better off telling them yourself. BTW, my threat to out you was just that...a threat in a moment of extreme anger. I truly do hope it works out for you...I don't relish your situation and assume your family would be more understanding than you might think.

from uncle sneak




he wasn't serious... don't be too fussed about the whole thing.

	20-08-2002 02:42									#85
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Funny how blackice and Lancer have now dropped the topic, and after all of this talk about "being a man" not one of them has apologized to me.

	20-08-2002 02:42									#86
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a lot of people (most people in fact) make thratrs (sometimes very serious ones) when angry

the difference between those who cause a lot of damage and those that do not is one acts while hot and the other waits and rethinks things

I think supersneak is of the second type

it is [/b]very[/b] common

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:43									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Funny how blackice and Lancer have now dropped the topic, and after all of this talk about "being a man" not one of them has apologized to me.

it would be nice if their were public apologies all arround

but in all honesty, I am just glad that the fight did not get serious again

Jon Miller

	20-08-2002 02:44									#88
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave look at this from uncle sneak he wasn't serious... don't be too fussed about the whole thing.

That's such bullshit, he's trying to cover his ass for his cruel and uncalled for remarks, and I'm not buying it.

I don't care if changed his mind the next day on it (which appears to be the case here), but the fact that he threatened to do it (several times) and has the capability to do it is enough for me.

He's such an ass in everything he does. Not only does he step WELL over the line of what was acceptable, he actually goes around and tries to play it cool afterwards when he knows he deeply upset the person he was debating with. The result is an infuriated teenager and a "cool" old man, and is it that much of a surprise that Sneak only got a 1 week ban and Lancer/blackice jumped to his aid?

It's PATHETIC.

And where is Ming?!

	20-08-2002 02:49									#89
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I don't think he will perma-ban you, just because that's exactly what you want him to do.

What about will power?

	20-08-2002 02:51									#90
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I'm not looking for a perma-ban, just a month or two to last me well into school when I'll be busy and forget about this place.

I quit my job last week and wrote my final on friday, and I don't start school till September 9th, so I've got like 3 weeks of nothing to do, and unless I'm banned from Poly I don't think I'll be able to resist coming back. And for my own good I don't want to come back.

I just don't understand why Ming won't voluntarily restrict my account.