21-08-2002 01:39									#1
	Artillery units (Catapult) Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't know how to use this unit in battle.

I read somewhere that I am supposed to support it with defensive units, but the catapult still doesn't seem to be able to destroy anything, so I see no point in building them anymore, as it's a total waste of shields.

(The same goes for fighters and bombers. I wait for stealth, because I hate wasting any turns not being able to do any damage to the enemy.)

	21-08-2002 03:29									#2
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Artillery units bombard - they can inflict damage without exposing themselves to combat. Their best use is to soften up the enemy before attacking with combat units. Trust me, if you don't use artillery you're gonna get your ass handed to ya in multiplayer

	21-08-2002 03:55									#3
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I just don't see that the catapults have done any damage. Do I just assume that the enemy defenses have been weakened?

	21-08-2002 04:46									#4
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quote: Originally posted by mrmichaeln I just don't see that the catapults have done any damage. Do I just assume that the enemy defenses have been weakened?

It works like this: you select the bombard unit, press B (or click the bombard button), click on the target square, and the bombard unit performs its bombardment. It may or may not be successful, there are certain probabilities. If it is successfull, you will either see that the enemy unit in the target square lost a hitpoint or two, or there will be a brief message telling you that some improvements were destroyed by your artillery. If it misses, a message to that effect appears. Strings of bad luck may make you think that artillery bombardment is ineffective, but the fact is that I find bombarding units quite useful from the very beginning of the game.

Important! If there are two or more units, it may sometimes look like the bombardment did nothing (not even miss) - it's because what you see in a tile is the best defender. If there are two regular spearmen, one with 2hp left, the other at full health, you will see the healthy one. If you attack two full health spearmen in the same tile and you hit one for 1 hp of damage, you will still see a full-health spearman (the other one that you haven't hit).

Does this explain what you observe in your games?

	21-08-2002 10:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by mrmichaeln I just don't see that the catapults have done any damage.

This is often the case. Catapults aren't very popular even with people that build scads of artillery later. Later on when you have the much more effective artillery you will see the damage much more often. Artillery and Infanty is a very effective combination untill tanks show up. Then the artillery is still very good for defense or to lower the population of large cities.


Lately I have cut down on my use of artillery. I like to take the cities intact and I am willing to expend more tanks and modern armour to do so. I now use my artillery mostly as portable shields. I move into just captured cities and disband them to rush build a temple or a harbor or even an airport. I don't know how I missed this for all these months. Makes captured cities usefull even while resistance continues.

	21-08-2002 20:42									#6
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Thanks for the tips.

I'll have to take a closer look at what's happening. But I think it's doing what you're saying.

	23-08-2002 09:34									#7
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Historically, Catapults were notoriously inaccurate. All they could do was aim in the general direction and hope for the best. So you'll probably miss more than you hit with them. But it's the first step along the way to Artillery, and the upgrades are the cheapest in the game. And since they take no damage when they attack, a Catapult in 3000 BC can become an Artillery in 1900 AD for next to nothing in comparison to other units.

Also try to use them more for units that are out in the open, not the cities. They're much more effective that way. Another advantage with them, since they take no damage, is they can keep on going while your Swordsman etc. stand around getting their hit points back. By the time they've rested, your Catapults will have have has a fair amount of time to pound your enemy. Just make sure they're well defended.

	23-08-2002 11:09									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Also try to use them more for units that are out in the open, not the cities. They're much more effective that way.

This point deserves to be stressed!

The catapults are WAY more effective against units out in an open terrain. I have several times stationed a catapult or two guarded by two vet spearmen on a strategic hill and pounded bypassing/coming enemy units like hell. Such deployment can be unbelievably effective, especially if you add an archer/swordsman to the stack. Pound the enemy units with your carapults and then finish them with your attack unit off.

My experience shows that catapults much more often hit then miss in the open (as a matter of fact, I take it as a really bad luck when they miss...).

	23-08-2002 14:24									#9
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My experience with catapults has convinced me to breed horsies. Much more effective and cheaper to upgrade as well. Canons are usefull for defense sometimes but at that point you could be building cavalry a far more usefull unit.

Artillery isn't bad though. Good for attacking ships on your coast. Good for pounding down large cities so that infantry can take them prior to tanks. The only thing wrong with artillery is that it tears the hell out any city you take that way. Very good for defense though and if you put them in a fortress they will shoot at passing troops just like tanks do. If you have a city that you must keep in hostile territory build forts at the corners of the city and fill them with artillery and defensive units. The AI tends to leave the city alone then no matter how badly it wants you out of there.

	23-08-2002 15:57									#10
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I find that catapults can be useful against cities early in the ancient era. But as they have a low chance of hitting anything you better have a stack of them, like 2 or 3 for every spearman in the enemy city. Taking one hitpoint from a veteran(or regular) defender will prove valuable when you attack. Even if ineffective they can cut down on your troop-replenishment cost. Haven't done any testing though.