22-08-2002 04:23									#1
	Anyone have any Modern Wars? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Game is decided before I ever get to modern tech. I think Bombers and Tanks are the coolest weapons. DO you have to play Huge Maps to paretake in some exciting modern wars?

I usually play standard maps and game is decided by early industrial ages at the latest on monarch/standard.

This last game I kept playing on after I had won just to see some of the modern tech. Damn that modern armor is rad. Bombers and carriers are cool too.

I am thinking I might have to move up to emperor and then Huge map to get to modern wars. Hmm the Iroqoius would be good for that..or maybe germans.

	22-08-2002 04:30									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Why don't you just use the edittor to make you start in the middle ages? This mite help a bit. Or i could just send you the save game file for my current game, its still in the industriel age and i'm the largest civ, but i'm sure if you keep on playing you'll get into the modern age. Its a space victory so i have to go into the modern age!

	22-08-2002 04:43									#3
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I'm always wary of Modern wars, but inevitibaly must fight at least a couple (I restrict my victory conditions to Conquest, usually and it's sometimes impossible to take out 15 other civs on a giga map before the modern age. Combined arms is the only way to slug it out. Bomb, blast, air strike; using the tanks only to mop up the beleaguered defenders. It's longer and more tedious than earlier ages, it seems, but more fun. I always get particular pleasure in the knowledge that I have enough ICBM's to reduce the entire map into slag.

	22-08-2002 04:43									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Is it pretty easy to do that in editor?

	22-08-2002 04:53									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes bombing cities into ruins and using tanks to blast thru defenses is 10 times more fun than ancient wars.. swordsmen are a yawner..

Germany might be fun on a giga map, for the panzers..but after playing religious civs for awehile it's kinda hard to give that up..especially on a giga map where wars could be very drawn out and staying solely in democracy isn't as viable.

	22-08-2002 04:59									#6
	Tired of ads?

I almost always play on huge maps. And almost always get into the modern age.

Admittedly, I only play at chieftan or warlord most of the time. The one time I played at regent was a scenerio I had modded a few days ago to have settlers require 3 pop. points until around medicine when they became pioneers that required only 2 pop. points. Was interested in seeing if it would slow down expansion and AI rexing.

Hard to tell if it did or not. I was pretty much stuck in last place most of the game. Had to use the human ability to save money several times to earn enough funds to buy my way up to being a bit behind in the tech race instead of being dead last.

Some things to watch out for in modern times in my experience...

AIs will use naval units fairly well. If you are on continents or islands, be prepared to fight a modern naval war of one sort or another. And if you aren't going out into the ocean yourself, expect that a modern opponent will be willing to bombard your coastal cities with battleships.

The AI will also use air assets if you let him. If your neighbor is about to become your enemy and you think he might have flight, and you do have flight, be sure to stock up on fighters in your border cities. And have a few on air superiority. I know it doesn't work every time, but if you don't have any fighter protection, it won't work at all.

The later in the game you are, the more agressive you have to be in pursuing a war in my experience. Especially if the other guy has gotten to Computers. If he has mech infantry, prepare for a long war, or make a lot of attackers before you go after him.

Thats all I can think of for the moment.

	22-08-2002 05:07									#7
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I am thinking of going a huge map and emperor this time around...

	22-08-2002 06:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Play on huge maps will usually get you into the Modern Age, and if you play less warmongerish at beginning, chances are even better.

	22-08-2002 07:00									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Bleyn


Some things to watch out for in modern times in my experience...

AIs will use naval units fairly well.

I think this is something much improved from civ2. My most memorable civ3 game involved a giant naval battle. Both the AI and I had invasion fleets, transports and all, heading towards each others territory. The battle was huge, involving some 50+ ships between the two of us. It became quite a slug match. In Civ2 you would see tactics similar to the land attacks: an inital burst of units, followed by the trickle as they built more and sent them out one at a time.

	22-08-2002 07:26									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hello!

I'm a newbie to these forums (obviously), but a veteran Civ player.

I almost always make it to the Modern Age, simply because I always play on Huge maps.

Modern wars are usually very devastating. For instance, I just finished a Regent-level game with the French. I was the only civ with Modern Armor (MA). My weakest neighbors, the Germans, didn't stand a chance. First thing I did was use my Bombers to destroy their roads leading to their sources of Rubber and Oil. That meant no more Infantry or Panzers. I had over 30 MA ready to roll before they declared war, and once they did, 5 cities fell in two turns, and that was using only 10 MA! The MA made adequate defenders until the Mechanized Infantry (MI) came in shortly thereafter to take their place.

It showed me how nasty a modern war could be, especially with MA involved. I was also building some ICBMs just in case the Babylonians (the most powerful civ at the time) got uppity. Tanks can be held off ok with a good amount of Infantry (or much better with MI), but MA + Bomber support is nearly unstoppable.

Although it was lots of fun rolling through my enemies cities, I realize that the same could happen to me. If possible, I would try to avoid modern warfare; it's too risky unless you have a massive advantage (only civ with MA, for example).

MQ

	22-08-2002 07:41									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Only one real Modern Ages war comes to mind... Regent, Standard, Pangea, all else random. I ended up as Persia, made small early conquests and thus got myself into a secure position without being enough of a threat to any of the major powers to attract undue attention. I allow the larger powers to whittle each other down, every once in a while participating in gang bangs if the civ is really going down and out and there's no risk to trying to get a piece of the action. Finally, it was down to France, Germany, and me. Both of the others had about 2x as much land and power as me, but I went into a complete all-out tech rush to get to Motorized Transport as quickly as possible. Got there with a nice five or six turn tech lead which was whittled away quickly as I started turning out tanks en masse. Anyway, I managed to get together enough to attack Germany (with limited French support) and completely demolished them, keeping most of the territory for myself. I then settled back to rebuild, so by the time I got to Synthetic Fibers, I was ready to do it again. I got together a total of 200 MA and 100 RA and started the excruciating process of ordering an incredibly large army about pre- fortify all and wake all. In the end, I beat 'em back by sheer numbers, though I managed to lose about 130 MA in the process. Finally, they were down to a few choice cities, all of which were behind ridiculously large mountain ranges. I figured I'd already gone to enough trouble, declared myself winner, and quit. It was really a pretty boring game after it got down to the Big Three, but it did mark my first (and only, to date) non-Space Race win on Regent for me.

	22-08-2002 09:19									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I have attached a game that might interest you. I am the Babylonians. My civ controls one of two equal sized large continents on the map. The other continent is controlled by the French. This is a regent level game, on a standard sized map. The year is 1955 AD. The continents are laid out in a rough yin-yang pattern. I am currently researching satellites. My civ is at war with the French. I saved the game at this point as I knew it was going to be a fairly long and drawn out war.

I know the difficulty level isn't up to some poster's level of play, but I'm sure some others might find it entertaining.

Attachment: babsfrnch.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

Last edited by MosesPresley on 22-08-2002 at 09:37

	22-08-2002 09:40									#13
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I play standard maps on monarchy, and usually I get into the modern age. Wars in the modern age are much more dangerous, expensive and devastating than anything that has come before.

For most of the industrial age (especially after the development of replaceable parts), stalemate rules the battlefield. Cities grow beyond size 12, increasing the defensive values. Unless overwhelming numbers are applied, the defensive technology (artillery, infantry) trumps the offensive technology (calvary).

The late industrial/early modern age changes all that. The development of tanks, mechanized infantry, cruise missiles, marines, paratroopers, bombers, fighters, aircraft carriers and submarines makes the battlefield much more dynamic. The addition of these units dramatically raises the stakes of war and makes modern conflict much more violent and destructive. Hoards of modern armor units can swamp defenses, penetrate deep behind enemy lines, and cause devastation. Likewise bombers can destroy infrastructure, industry, irrigation and city improvements. There is the opportunity both for rapid advances and retreats, and the amount of firepower on the battlefield means that casualties will increase, forcing your cities to produce guns instead of butter.

Modern war also effects the economics of the modern age. By this time a civilization's industry (factories, powerplants, mines, railroads, and population) will be sufficiently developed so that the tools of war can be constructed much more quickly and efficiently, especially when you have mobilized your economy. The result is larger and larger armies, with a corresponding increase in defense budgets and war making potential. Defense budgets will also increase because you will be obliged to create an airforce, build submarines and aircraft carriers and add new city improvements (airports, SAM sites). Even more so than past ages technology is vitally important, so you will have to either keep a high science rate to research it or a high tax rate to buy/steal it. Finally, the need for new raw materials (oil, uranium, aluminum) will force you either to fight for them, or make trade agreements that might not be to your advantage.

Finally, the late modern age casts the long shadow of atomic devastation across the world. Nuclear weapons not only slaughter a city's population and destroy improvements, they also pollute and change the surrounding environment. Grassland becomes plains, and plains becomes desert. The development of smart weapons also raises the likelihood of destruction, since stealth bombers can leave a city in ruins from afar, without the use of nukes.

In short, if you reach the modern age, expect your wars to be bigger, bloodier and generally much more exciting.

	22-08-2002 13:09									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Most of the time I've eradicated all the civs in the industrial ages or it's pretty obvious that I will win therefore get bored and quit the game would be really cool to see a modern war with all those nice new weapons.

	22-08-2002 18:07									#15
	Put an end to popups!

I like modern wars. I just wish there was a modern infantry. I just don't like that WW1 soldier running around in the 90's

	22-08-2002 18:16									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Modern wars are really cool especially when you have a good tech lead, the feeling that you get when you station carriers on the enemy coast and bomb the sh*t out of them with bombers and battleships.
because of the tech lead your enemy responds with ironclads .
After that you burn 'em down with tanks or modern armor .
When I dont have a good tech lead in modern times, I always try to avoid wars it's just too dangerous and costly.

	22-08-2002 18:26									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like modern wars. Even though I don't use airplanes (I find them too quick and not worth the turns to build). All you need in a legion of MAs and goto town.

	22-08-2002 20:10									#18
	Re: Anyone have any Modern Wars? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Artifex Game is decided before I ever get to modern tech. I think Bombers and Tanks are the coolest weapons. DO you have to play Huge Maps to paretake in some exciting modern wars?

True! Most game is decided before we could ever get to modern tech. I think cavalries and artilleries are the coolest units. Once I get artilleries, victory is certain. For my artillery strategy, check out this thread. If you wish to see my artilleries and cavalries in action, my savegames can be locate in this thread.

I usually play on a huge map with at least 12 civs and I rarely see exciting modern warfares. Even if you play on a huge map at Deity level with 16 civs, you probably won't see much modern warfares unless you intentionally let it happens.

	22-08-2002 20:51									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've used modern armour for a couple of skirmishes. I think I built stealth once, and I've never built the modern arty.

	22-08-2002 22:03									#20
	Modern Era World Wars Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Gentlemen,

Being a builder at heart, I am only learning to do some peaceful warmongering and my latest game is a good example of how intense the Modern Era can be:

Egypt/Monarch/Std Map/8 Civ/Pangea with two smaller continents
Iroquois, Romans, Egyptians, Japanese, Russians, Aztec and Chinese on main continent
Zulus on large island/continent.
Russians dead around 1 AD, Japanese around 1700 AD.

The year is 1960 and I just finished a scrap with the only other democracy, the Zulu's. Major naval actions that saw the loss of a couple of Egyptian destroyers and submarines, while we sank 2 Zulu Aircraft Carriers, 2 Battleships, 2 transports, and about 12 Ironclads. Major Airwar actions saw the Egyptians loosing about 4 Fighters and the Zulus loosing 10 Bombers.

I took out their oil and one aluminium site by bombardment and they were happy to take a peace treaty with large cash gpt penalties for their troubles. I had just finished a 20 turn war with the Romans, where they were completely pushed out of their starting site on the main continent, and now have only their two of seven original big cities on the main continent and one island continent. The Iroquois are still at war with the Romans, but their ablibity to project force is limited and I have 4 battleships and some bombers nearby if needed.

On the main continent, the Aztecs are the biggest for cities, but they lack technology (they only have Cavalry and I have MA in spades) and the Chinese (Infantry and a little artillery). I was making preparations to attack the Aztecs when the Zulu's struck. I had moved my palace to the Old Japanese capital some 400 years before, so I have almost 2 fully built up empires with factories in about half the cities.

It was a mad scamble to get all available fighters in place to take on the Zulu bombers who were having unusual luck in taking out the terrain improvments. I had more than enough workers available to repair the damage each turn, but it took about 6 turns to get enough fighter and jet fighter units in place to protect my coastal cities. All the while I had Chinese Infantry and Roman Riflemen wandering into my territories and i was fully expecting the next request for them to shove off was going to bring on a new war. Fortunately, they didn't and will soon realize that they missed their opportunity to do some damage.

There have been some good battles, and usually I lost a unit for every defender killed. With a full load of MA with MI's with Artillery Bombers in place, now I should have about half of the Aztec empire in about 5 turns. Good thing too: war weariness, even with 6 of 8 luxuries and Marketplaces everywhere, is a problem since they start the riot at turn 21 of the conflict. The last time, I hadn't even started the fighting !

G.I Latrine grafitti:

This is a war fought by the unwilling,
Led by the unqualitfied,
Dying for the ungrateful.

(Tour of Duty)

(I still hadn't had an army until about 1950, and that was from the Roman campaign... so no Military Acadamy or Heroic Epic yet)
Add in that most of my trade was coming from the Zulus, I had hoped to keep them as a cash cow to pay for the accelerated research. When they attacked, it cost me 220 gpt. Fortunately I had recently captured another luxury, and research had been at 80%. I was able to still make 100gpt with the research reduced to just 50%.

Combat in modern times can be fun, but you need to really work at it to make it viable (by selectively pruning enemies). Combined arms and a good Navy are essential, some serious production capacity and a flexible economy and you can take on the whole world while sitting on the edge of your seat..


D.

Last edited by Gen.Dragolen on 22-08-2002 at 23:38

	22-08-2002 22:08									#21
	Re: Modern Era World Wars Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen Gentlemen,

So ladies don't count???

	22-08-2002 22:48									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In one of my recent games (emperor/huge map), I even postponed building the spaceship so that I can see radar artillery, modern armor, stealth bombers and AEGIS cruisers at work.
It's just fun to have all those killer units around...

	22-08-2002 23:30									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Caliban In one of my recent games (emperor/huge map), I even postponed building the spaceship so that I can see radar artillery, modern armor, stealth bombers and AEGIS cruisers at work. It's just fun to have all those killer units around...

Yup, all dress up in shinning armour with no place to go and no one to fight against.

	22-08-2002 23:56									#24
	Re: Re: Modern Era World Wars Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger So ladies don't count???

My Lady,

No offense was intended. I had yet to meet a woman who plays this game. My humble apologies.


D.

	23-08-2002 00:01									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And it is something to see a nicely balanced force slice through the enemies ranks and watch their cities add to your empire.

Good thing this is only a game, because it sounds like many players rely soley on the weight of numbers when doing their campigns. In real life, they'd have been court martial'd for their troop mutinying over the causalty rates...

D.

	23-08-2002 00:23									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Now thats an interesting idea for PTW or further on. Armies that wont fight if abused.

	23-08-2002 03:32									#27
	1967 AD Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Lady and Gentlemen,

Here's a copy of my the game. See what you think my chances are of winning by domination.


D.

Attachment: cleopatra of the egyptians, 1967 ad.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	23-08-2002 21:33									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

i mostly play on large islands continents. I try to avoid wars until modern except to conquer my entire island. I think modern wars are much more fun. altho MA against spearmen isnt much of a fight, the AIs have so many that many cities survive just because I run out of attacking units. I'm watching a war between the english and romans. The english have a hill city with at least 2 MI. The romans are massing an army of over 40 units ranging from legionaries to marines. The have already sent 6 cavalry units to their death. My army is waiting for mop up operations against the winner.