22-08-2002 04:25									#1
	My suggestions for PTW Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here's my wish list for the civ3 expansion:

Editor

1. Add/Delete button for Experience Levels.

2. Add/Delete button for World Sizes.

3. Increase possible maximum world size to 512x512. I will probably never play on a map this
big, but the point is, I should have that option if I wanted to.

4. Increase maximum Bombard Range (units) to 20.

5. Increase maximum Operational Range (units) to 20.

6. Add an additional option to Units Page, allowing player to require the selected unit to be built through a specific city improvement. (i.e. Swordsman requires an Armory to be built; Tank requires Machine Factory; etc.)

7. Add a Retreat Option for infantry. Possible to toggle on/off (game default would be off) Separate slot for Retreat Bonus for infantry than for faster moving units. (i.e. player can make retreat bonus for infantry = 50, while cavalry = 72)

8. Add complete new page for Civilization Leaders only. On this page a player can edit:
8a. Reputation of Leader among other Civ Leaders.
8b. Reputation of Leader among his own people.
8c. Switch civilization aggression level to this page, and change it to Leader Aggression, not civilization aggression. Change from 5 possible levels to 7.

9. New Page for Diplomatic Negotiation. Here you can edit:
9a. Messages/Text.
9b. Levels of willingness to trade. Ranging from:
Furious - not willing to trade anything, ready to declare war.
Angry - may be willing to trade, though must be extremely unfair to you.
Cautious - Perhaps may trade, a bit unfair to you.
Polite - Is willing to trade for a fair deal.
Gracious - Willing to trade a deal with advantage to you.
9c. Add/Delete button for the above suggestion (Levels of Willingness to Trade).

10. Add more abilities to be used for Wonders, both Small and Great. And allow players to edit Wonders much more throughly. (i.e. for Wall Street, allow the player to edit how much percentage of interest he will obtain; etc.)

New Scenario Editor

1. Ability to make a civilization protagonist.

2. Ability to disable negotiations between certain civilizations. (i.e. not allow certain civs to negotiate at all during the game)

3. New Fantastical Civilizations, including: Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs/Goblins/Evil Creatures, Mages/Sorcerers/Wizards.

Ability to edit Civ Leader’s attitudes towards other Civ Leaders. (i.e. Hatred, Friendly, etc.)

Miscellaneous

1. New Unit Packs including:
1a. Medieval Units
1b. Ancient Units
1c. Modern Units
1d. Industrial Units
1e. Brand new Fantastical Units, including units for the following new civilizations: Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs/Goblins/Evil Creatures, Mages/Sorcerers/Wizards.

2. New City Packs for Fantastical Civilizations. (i.e. City Images/Art)

3. Ability to play Simultaneous Games (non-turn mode) in Single Player. Also, ability to play Capture the Flag in Single Player, and the game where the goal is to assassinate other civ leaders (forgot what it’s called).

4. Ability to edit a Civ Leaders reputation if/after certain event happens. (i.e. reputation is 54, then he nukes another civ, and his reputation drops to 31)

5. Increase the intelligence of the AI. Before civ3 came out, if I remember right, this was the #1 thing people wanted differently from the other civ games. And quite frankly, Firaxis didn’t do the best job on this point. The AI is still incredibly stupid. I want a real challenge from the AI civ leaders (not just civs), without having to go to Multiplayer. I am not talking about the AI cheating or anything like that, I am talking about the AI actually making smart decisions for once.

6. Somehow increase the nationality (differences) between each civilization. The only difference I see between America and Russia are their colors. Make the different nationalities extremely different, and more realistic. I want to actually feel some patriotism from my people if another civ declares war on me, or vise versa. For example, a cool way to expand this would be, when I am at war, and at the same time, my citizens are extremely happy, they volunteer for the military. Volunteer Drafting I think would really be cool if implemented right.

7. On the Military Advisors Page in the game, add a button that would upgrade all my units. It is so incredibly annoying to go to every city of mine, and upgrade every one of my units, especially if I have 30+ cities, and a minimum of 3 units per city.

8. Complete new unit, called Champions/Heros. These would be like Great Leaders, except they are like other normal units, though stronger in defense and attack, and perhaps have specific unique abilities. They are unique, thus cannot be built; however, they are not randomly created or placed like Great Leaders.

I realize most (or perhaps even none) of these suggestions of mine may not be implemented into the game, but hey, I can wish can’t I? Feel free to add any of your own suggestions.

9. Re-include civil war again. I loved that from civ2. I thought it made the game so much more realistic when/if I captured another civ’s capital, half of their remaining cities would revolt. In civ3, instead of them becoming a new civ, they would become revolutionists, and would pretty much become protagonists, and would attack everything and anything in their path. Also, if a civ’s people were very unhappy with their leader, some cities, once reaching a certain level of unhappiness, would revolt, and become revolutionists.

10. Terrorism. This ability would belong to the revolutionists alone. It would be like sabotage and espionage, but much more and better implemented into the game.

11. Add new unit ability: Patrol. A unit, while on patrol, would move twice as fast (if a unit had a movement rate of 2, it would increase to 4), and would patrol between two points that the player would designate. If he spotted an enemy unit, he would automatically engage in combat as soon as possible.

I realize most (if not all) of these suggestions may not be used in PTW, but I hope at least some of them will be.

	22-08-2002 05:25									#2
	Re: My suggestions for PTW Suffering from ads?

I have no comments about your editor-related issues, but as for everything else...

quote: Originally posted by Tolkien Miscellaneous 1. New Unit Packs including: 1a. Medieval Units 1b. Ancient Units 1c. Modern Units 1d. Industrial Units 1e. Brand new Fantastical Units, including units for the following new civilizations: Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs/Goblins/Evil Creatures, Mages/Sorcerers/Wizards. 2. New City Packs for Fantastical Civilizations. (i.e. City Images/Art)

It's called Play the World, not Test of Time 2, I would much rather Firaxis focus on making the game good than making the game be in a completely different setting. Mod'ers can do that

quote: 3. Ability to play Simultaneous Games (non-turn mode) in Single Player. Also, ability to play Capture the Flag in Single Player, and the game where the goal is to assassinate other civ leaders (forgot what it’s called).

Okay, including the new multiplayer modes into single player is a good idea, except I imagine this will cause an enormous strain on the CPU. Think of how long it takes when the AI's take their turns one at a time on big maps, now imagine if it was all at once and constant.

quote: 4. Ability to edit a Civ Leaders reputation if/after certain event happens. (i.e. reputation is 54, then he nukes another civ, and his reputation drops to 31)

No comment (this is an editor issue, should have been placed with the rest of the editor issues

quote: 5. Increase the intelligence of the AI. Before civ3 came out, if I remember right, this was the #1 thing people wanted differently from the other civ games. And quite frankly, Firaxis didn’t do the best job on this point. The AI is still incredibly stupid. I want a real challenge from the AI civ leaders (not just civs), without having to go to Multiplayer. I am not talking about the AI cheating or anything like that, I am talking about the AI actually making smart decisions for once.

There is always room for improvement, but coming from a programmer who constantly has to deal with AI, I am somewhat pleased with the AI. Perhaps you should change your playing style if the game is so easy for you (stop restarting when you don't like your start location, put your civ on random, etc)

quote: 6. Somehow increase the nationality (differences) between each civilization. The only difference I see between America and Russia are their colors. Make the different nationalities extremely different, and more realistic. I want to actually feel some patriotism from my people if another civ declares war on me, or vise versa. For example, a cool way to expand this would be, when I am at war, and at the same time, my citizens are extremely happy, they volunteer for the military. Volunteer Drafting I think would really be cool if implemented right.

I fail to see how the drafting idea fits in with your arguement for differences among civs. At least they took the time to make the citizens look different and the cities. You make it sound like every civ is completely the same aside from color.

quote: 7. On the Military Advisors Page in the game, add a button that would upgrade all my units. It is so incredibly annoying to go to every city of mine, and upgrade every one of my units, especially if I have 30+ cities, and a minimum of 3 units per city.

You sound like an experienced player, but have you ever used SHIFT-U?

quote: 8. Complete new unit, called Champions/Heros. These would be like Great Leaders, except they are like other normal units, though stronger in defense and attack, and perhaps have specific unique abilities. They are unique, thus cannot be built; however, they are not randomly created or placed like Great Leaders.

IMO there is already enough randomness to the game with just the GL's. Entire games can be decided by the outcome of one combat role if it results in a GL.

quote: I realize most (or perhaps even none) of these suggestions of mine may not be implemented into the game, but hey, I can wish can’t I? Feel free to add any of your own suggestions.

Why is this in the middile of your list?

quote: 9. Re-include civil war again. I loved that from civ2. I thought it made the game so much more realistic when/if I captured another civ’s capital, half of their remaining cities would revolt. In civ3, instead of them becoming a new civ, they would become revolutionists, and would pretty much become protagonists, and would attack everything and anything in their path. Also, if a civ’s people were very unhappy with their leader, some cities, once reaching a certain level of unhappiness, would revolt, and become revolutionists.

I... almost finally started to agree with you, until I read past the first two sentences....

quote: 10. Terrorism. This ability would belong to the revolutionists alone. It would be like sabotage and espionage, but much more and better implemented into the game.

There have been many discussions about this, and I for one am on the sides of those who don't see how it could possibly fit into Civ3.

quote: 11. Add new unit ability: Patrol. A unit, while on patrol, would move twice as fast (if a unit had a movement rate of 2, it would increase to 4), and would patrol between two points that the player would designate. If he spotted an enemy unit, he would automatically engage in combat as soon as possible.

Wtf? double the speed?? then you can just patrol to where you normally want to go, and stop patrolling when you get there, and there you effectivly doubled your movement rating for free. this has got to be the dumbest idea in your whole list

quote: I realize most (if not all) of these suggestions may not be used in PTW, but I hope at least some of them will be.

Anyone hear a broken record playing?

	22-08-2002 05:50									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sorry about the double posting of those sentences. And yeah, your probably right, doubling the speed of units would be a simple cheat for getting places, but I think a Patrol ability would be useful.

The Champions/Heros would be specifically for scenarios, not the normal game.

The differences among civs and the Volunteer Drafting were two complete different ideas, just got meshed into one paragraph.

And after many hours with each civ, I say "yes" to your question, the civs are all pretty much the same, except for their units, and perhaps aggression level. But in the end, after you declare war on them, they are all just as 'aggressive': "wipe out the human player...now all the AI, are you with me!?"

The new Unit Packs would specifically be for scenario-makers like myself.

	22-08-2002 06:37									#4
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Tolkien but I think a Patrol ability would be useful.

isn't patrol already in?

	22-08-2002 10:46									#5
	Support Apolyton

i thought i read somewhere they were including lots of units for a couple different types of mods, but i might have been mistaken. anyways, sorry if i sounded too harsh, it was just critisism

	22-08-2002 12:08									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What I would love in Civ3 is an overhaul of the Scen Editor. Instead of it being a seperate program, have it be part of the game. I dont like switching back and forth between programs to test a scenario. It's annoying, and eventually crashes my old, slow computer

But thats just me

	22-08-2002 13:19									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Carver isn't patrol already in?

Speaking of "broken records". . . I first heard peope (including me) ask for that over FIVE YEARS AGO after Civ 2 came out. We were ignored, of course.

The "broken record" wouldn't be playing if Firaxis finally decided to get it right - bomber range editing, for instance.

And if Civ 3 is state-of-the-art AI it is pretty sad. I do not beleive it; there is too much stupidity that clearly could have been progammed better if they took more time and playtested the thing.

	22-08-2002 20:04									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Tolkien, I think most of your Ideas are great especially with the editor and I agree with most of what neonext said.

With the Fantasty units Fraxis will only add units that fit in standard Civ, ther dinosaurs, and best of the web and that is the way I think it should be for PtW.

On no. 7 the Shift+U comand upgrades all units of the same type that Meet all the requirements (baracks, conected to resorses, etc.).

Did Coracle just say he sounds like a broken record?

	22-08-2002 20:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Somebody please tell me this Tolkien fellow isn't a double log in.

	22-08-2002 20:40									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Somebody please tell me this Tolkien fellow isn't a double log in.

I agree, that it does seem a little familiar...