22-08-2002 06:28									#1
	cool idea for a unit Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If anybody else has been tinkering around with Trip's cool mediteranian map, I have an idea for a unit if anyone is interested in creating it.
I whipped up a little scenario for myself for the time period of 220 b.c. and for the Iberian Celts and the Gaul's I gave them a land unit that shows no nationality, so how it was in history the countries could trade and all, but some tribes were still attacking civilized countries. I don't know what the unit would be called, I just thought it was an interesting idea.

	23-08-2002 19:01									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, that could work.

One problem would be that the AI is very aggressive against colourless units, especially when fighting no other wars.

	24-08-2002 04:11									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Optimizer Well, that could work. One problem would be that the AI is very aggressive against colourless units, especially when fighting no other wars.

Wow really? So would they be more aggressive towards units that are black (not skin tone, team colour)?

	24-08-2002 07:47									#4
	Put an end to popups!

I have a hidden nationality unit in my game (Ninja) and the AI is way to aggressive attacking these. I would say the AI likes attacking my NInja more than anything else. The best thing about a hidden nationality land unit is when the AI starts to build a wonder you can destroy the city without a war.

	24-08-2002 18:41									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

With nation-less land units, can you commit all sorts of horrible acts without ANY consequences. I mean, you don't end up with a worse reputation by enslaving workers, and razing cities?
Just wondering if the whole nationless thing was implemented properly since it was intended for a ship, not a more versatile land unit.

Though I guess capturing workers would be a problem since I'm guessing they still end up being your units.

	24-08-2002 18:45									#6
	Got spare money?

No. The AI doesn't know a thing! I was playing a game where India started building Megellan's Voyage so I loaded up a ship with Ninja and CAPTURED the city. I now own their city, stopped them from building a wonder, and have no war weariness or war. My reputation also seems unhurt. I like my Ninja unit and to top it all off the AI uses it and uses it properly!

	24-08-2002 20:45									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You actually get the city, and they don't know what happened. That's really funny more than anything.

But using these nation-less units to stop wonders and the such soudns pretty cool. Kind of like a conveniently placed and well timed barbarian uprising . . . which now that I think of it sounds pretty cool too. Kind of like mindworms in SMAC. There could be some option to raise a huge barbarian army near your enemy and let them do what damage they want.

	24-08-2002 20:54									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I put the landmine unit in my game as a hidden nationality and invisible unit.

It was basically useless, because no matter where I put them the AI knows where they are and attacks them relentlessly.

The only real use for them is I can use them to lure the AI to specific points. Really weird when you think about it, using landmines to lure enemy...

Admittedly the game is not designed for landmines, but the point is still valid that the AI didn't seem to recognise an invisible land unit as invisible and hammer my hidden nationality units with utmost aggression.

I got a shock the first time I built them as I popped them out a few squares from their border in a row, and all of a sudden their bombers were attacking. quite the scene to see your neighbours bombers blowing up landmines on your soil while you have a peace treaty.

They had no land units in the visinity to locate the landmines either.

	24-08-2002 21:02									#9
	Support Apolyton

strange: when I play with hidden nationality units, my rep. does indeed seem to go down. In fact, If I capture workers or cities with my HN units, it's like all of my neighboors get really pissed at me! I reloaded my game without doing this, and they didn't get mad. So the AI does seem to understand thaqt you are doing something mean, but they just don't have any proof. That is how it happened in my game anyway.

	24-08-2002 22:39									#10
	Support Apolyton

I'm not surprised that the AI attacks HN land units very agressively. I've never really used privateers. Never really saw much of a point in them.

But it makes sense that the AI would be programmed to kill HN units, land or sea, on sight. Among other things, the no consequences thing works both ways. Sure, if you make a HN unit you can use it to attack them without a war, but they know they can attack them too, cause you can't cry foul. In all, I'd say the AI is reacting exactly the way it should be for the situation.

	24-08-2002 23:01									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Kemal, I have heard someone who says that they got the Land Mine to work. They didn't post their settings though. Are you using Peseloco's land mine?

	25-08-2002 03:08									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I found that if you make a hidden nationality nuke and use it, you still end up with everyone immediately either hating you and/or declaring war on you.

	25-08-2002 08:07									#13
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sheik Kemal, I have heard someone who says that they got the Land Mine to work. They didn't post their settings though. Are you using Peseloco's land mine?

Yes I did use Peseloco's unit.

I didn't do anything fancy:

I had it set as hidden nationality, invisible, foot unit.

Cost 15
Attack 0
Defense 10
Movement 1

I just moved em out to where I wanted them and fortified.

The AI couldn't work out how to use them properly though, the only setting available for the AI with these stats is explore. It was quite interesting where they showed up. Mind you I couldn't use them properly either.

I also made them available with nationalism. (suited my purposes)

Bleyn: I guess it does make sense, the first thing I would do when I see a hidden nationality unit is attack it too. Might get a unit promotion out of it too. Thats an advantage.

	25-08-2002 19:20									#14
	Put an end to popups!

I hope the next editor offers a mine flag for a unit.