22-08-2002 18:06									#1
	Proportional cost for Small Wonders Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Civ 3 suffers from the "Bigger Always Better" syndrome (though not as severely as Civ 2 did). It means that large civs are more efficient than small ones, which makes the game unblanced.

One important reason is that Small Wonders cost the same to build no matter the size of the civ, while the benefits are greater for larger civs.

One solution is to make the cost of Small Wonders proportional to the number of cities, just like the cost of a Palace.

Besides balancing the game, you get the choice of building those Wonders early or late in the game.

	23-08-2002 06:22									#2
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Absolutely fantastic idea, Optimizer! Like so many of the ideas posted here, though, unless they have already put this in, we're going to have to wait for the next expansion to see it!
What I have noticed, however, is that if you ask Firaxis nicely, and there is clear support for your idea, then they will often put it in eventually (either in an expansion or a patch!) The only exception seems to be if the idea requires a MASSIVE change in the game mechanics!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	23-08-2002 13:00									#3
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What? How many Small Wonders give benefits that are greater to large civs?

Let's see:

1) Battlefield medicine - yes.

2) Military Academy - no

3) Iron Works - no.

4) Wall Street - no.

5) Heroic Epic - depends.

6) Forbidden Palace - only useful to quite large Civs.

7) The Pentagon - yes.

8) Apollo Program - no.

9) SDI - no.

10) Intelligence Agency - no.

So, even if you include the FP and HE, only 4 out of 10 Small Wonders give benefits that increase with Civ size.

	23-08-2002 15:50									#4
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Wall Street is better for large civs since they have a larger treasury.

The SDI is better for large civs because all cities are protected.

The Heroic Epic is better for large civs because they have got more units.

	23-08-2002 18:13									#5
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Yup and once again Optimizer does what his name says. Should be included into the next patch so if you are a smaller civ and not the world leader you still have the chance to reverse the situation and get on top but at the moment if you are behind you stay behind most of the time different costs would surely balance this out

	24-08-2002 04:52									#6
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quote: Wall Street is better for large civs since they have a larger treasury.

Not necessarily, since the benefits max out when your treasury is over 1000.

quote: The SDI is better for large civs because all cities are protected.

Technically it works more efficiently, but that doesn't really give an in-game bonus.

quote: The Heroic Epic is better for large civs because they have got more units.

Actually it's utility depends on how many elite units you have and how many wars you fight. You don't need a large Civ for that.

	24-08-2002 13:38									#7
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Well, you could have a proportional cost for wonders hat are a greater benefit for large civs, and a constant cost for wonders that aren't affected by civ size.

	24-08-2002 22:53									#8
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I like the shield costs as they are. This way you have to find a cood balance in size. And actually PLAN when you want to build them. If cost i proposrtinal to civ size it would stupify them.

	25-08-2002 13:06									#9
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This sounds like a pretty cool idea, though I'm not sure if I would mod it into my game. would be nice to be in the editor, and since the palace is like that, it probably wouldn't be that difficult to add.

	25-08-2002 19:54									#10
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hi ,

all those wonders are usefull , size is no problem , ...

even a small civ that has the iron works can there after start to build all those small wonders very fast , .....

have a nice day

	25-08-2002 21:53									#11
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about the SDI:

I would make it proportional

I know that it doesn't provide added benefits the larger the civ, but I would think that it would cost more for each city under the umbrella.

I don't know much about such things, but I would say that it would be easier and cheaper to protect 5 cities than 50, right? I may be totally wrong on that, of course, I admit my ignorance.

	25-08-2002 22:56									#12
	Re: Proportional cost for Small Wonders Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Optimizer One solution is to make the cost of Small Wonders proportional to the number of cities, just like the cost of a Palace.

Is this true? I had no idea! ..... examples, anyone?

	25-08-2002 23:01									#13
	Re: Re: Proportional cost for Small Wonders Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by candybo Is this true? I had no idea! ..... examples, anyone?

Unfortunately, it is!
My current palace costs 1000 shields! So I often need a leader to "rebase" it.

	25-08-2002 23:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel about the SDI: I would make it proportional I know that it doesn't provide added benefits the larger the civ, but I would think that it would cost more for each city under the umbrella. I don't know much about such things, but I would say that it would be easier and cheaper to protect 5 cities than 50, right? I may be totally wrong on that, of course, I admit my ignorance.

hi ,

btw , has any one ever seen the SDI in action , ....

while playing a game 2 civs could fire both icbm and tactical without any problems , ....

have a nice day

	25-08-2002 23:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , btw , has any one ever seen the SDI in action , .... while playing a game 2 civs could fire both icbm and tactical without any problems , .... have a nice day

I think I've had a nuke blocked before, but I can't remember what the message said. usually game is over before then.

I don't think the SDI will block tacticals, but I may be totally wrong on that.

	26-08-2002 00:00									#16
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I think I've had a nuke blocked before, but I can't remember what the message said. usually game is over before then. I don't think the SDI will block tacticals, but I may be totally wrong on that.

hi ,

the manual says "chance of intercepting ICBM attacks"

"the defense against most nuclear attacks is the small wonder SDI defense"

then again the SAM does not like to work neither in most times , .....

true the editor it was tried to fix this , but no good

Firaxis ; we need a unit option "double defense against airunits"

have a nice day