22-08-2002 21:41									#1
	Seeking replacement graphics for . . . Put an end to popups!

I have made extensive changes to the game, primarily for my own use, but I have submitted them for posting on Apolyton. There are two further changes I would like to make:

I want to replace one of the existing civilisations with a second African civilisation (West African, probably Mali). Has anyone out there developed a suitable leader head ?

I would like to replace the existing (30 Years War / English Civil War) Musketman with a more 18th / early 19th Century (e.g. 7 Years War / Napoleonic) Musketman. Has anyone out there developed something suitable ?

	23-08-2002 02:42									#2
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why would you want to replace an exsisting civ when you can just add a new one?

	23-08-2002 11:50									#3
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One, I haven't tried adding any civilisations yet. I know at least one person has developed a way of adding civilisations. But as far as I understand 16 is still the ceiling on civilisations numbers.

Two, there were too many civilisations in the game that appeared 'late' in history and / or that are North Western 'European' in character. I have replaced some of these with earlier civilisations.

In particular I want to replace the English with a West African civilisation. Have you ever seen a West African ruler who looked like Elizabeth I ?

	23-08-2002 20:21									#4
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With the editor in the 1.29 patch you can add Civs and turn off others.
Look in the Leader head request thread or PM Sween.

	23-08-2002 21:47									#5
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You can add civs without removing other civs. Yes 16 is the limit in the game, but at the civ-selector screen it can show 32 civs to choose from at a time. So don't remove the English.

	29-08-2002 23:35									#6
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I have already replaced some civs, but may add more if I get time to create, or if I can find suitable accompanying graphics for leaders / units etc.

My line up of civ's are:

Babylon, Egypt, India, China, Aztec and Inca (civilisation developed independently in their six parts of the world).

Rome, Greece, Persia, Phoenicia (the next group of civilisations to develop were all around the meditteranean).

Celt-Iberians (representing the South-Western European 'Celtic' peoples), Germans (representing the Northern and Central european 'Germanic' peoples) and the Rus (representing the Scandinavian and Slavic 'Eastern European' peoples).

Finally the Japanese (though I considered other East Asian alternative candidates) and Africans (effectively East Africans).

The vacant slot is occupied by the English, who I will replace with West Africans.

Nobody in North America. Sorry, the USA and Canada are offshoots of European civilisation, so I've chosen to leave them out, and the only native north american people to develop any kind of civilisation (centred on Cahokia Illonois were probably forced to go back to being hunter-gatherers by climate change).

	21-09-2002 00:33									#7
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I found a good musket armed Napoleonic style infantryman on the Civfanatics web site. Compliments the cavalry unit nicely !

Still having problems with the leaderhead, I overwrote Elizabeth with copies of the Zulu leaderhead, but she still appears when I deal with the ruler of Mali !

	28-09-2002 20:48									#8
	Put an end to popups!

The next game I started Sundiata of the mali (who could be the twin of the Zulu leaderhead) appeared !

I guess that I started the game before that with Liz in charge and then replaced the graphics.

I had anticipated thet the game would source the leaderheads from the art files each time they were required, not include them in the saves, which must be what happens.

	29-09-2002 01:58									#9
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I find the lack of north american civs coupled with your high handed generalizations of the various civs completely arbitrary at best.

For a personal mod thats fine, since you are the only consumer.

But if you intend your mod for general consumption, you might want to consider adding to the pre-existing civs or making a better effort to represent the ancient peoples other folk might want to play, like the Atlantis culture, australian aborigines, the hebrews, ancient India (forgive me if you mentioned them, I'm too lazy to look again right now) or the various peoples that were developing in the americas during the same period as your other 'early civs', prior to the aztecs.

Sure, they didn't make it into the modern age, but neither did the celts and you don't seem to be concerned about the realism of the political landscape of the later stages of games under your mod.

But its your mod.

I'd also like to point out that the conclusions you draw about the ancients aren't supported by what I've read.

	29-09-2002 23:31									#10
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Purplemooseman

I provided an explanation to Hagbert for why I was replacing the English. It was not my intention to impose my views on other people.

I'd like to point out that the term civilisation is derived from the latin 'cives' (city) and you can't have a civilisation without cities.

Had I designed Civilisation I would have built into the game more than one way in which a civilisation could get started.

One - there would be a few civilisations that would start up independently (example - Egypt, China, etc.).

Two - later other civilisation would develop on the borders of some of these states as a result of cultural and technological diffusion (example - the Greeks, the Phoenicians, etc.). Further 'diffusion' could produce other civilisations (example - Rome, the Celts, etc.).

Three - barbarians who successfully attack civilisations rather than just looting will seek to take over captured cities and create new states (example - France, England, Spain).

Four - rebellion could result in the creation of new breakaway states (example - the USA).

Should there aslo be provision for states to de-construct empires (post WW2 de-colonisation) or form political and economic unions (example - the European Union)

As for the realism of the political landscape of the later stages of games under my mod. Later history is the product of how earlier history turned out. For example:

If George III had allowed the American colonies to send MPs to London, or allowed them a measure of self government, there might be no USA.

If Alexander had not died at 32, and left a stable empire, perhaps Rome would never have grown to dominate the Meditteranean, perhaps Greece would never have been a province of another empire.

If the Roman Empire had not conquered Gaul and Britain and subequently fallen, perhaps the Celts would have developed into a civilisation with cities. There would be no England of France, but there might be a Britain and a Gaul.

If the Reconquista had not happened, Spain might have remained Muslim. The Axtec and Inca Empires might not have fallen to Spanish adventurers.

The whole point of Civilisation 3 is to see how things could turn out, not reproduce how they did. Usually it is played on a different map anyway. My own choice is to have early civilisations, and because of the limit of 16 civilisations I have in some cases used one 'people' to represent several. I could call the Aztecs the Maya, or the Toltecs or the 'Cental Americans'.

	29-09-2002 23:53									#11
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There is a musketman in the files section over at civ fanatics.