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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Is there any scenario in which the Arabs defeat America in the current war?
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Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:35
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Yes they tried. Obviously they made some bad mistakes.
Israel defended greatly their country in those attacks. But if the arabworld tried it again, and planned it well, it could succeed doing it. With full force and surprise. I'm not saying they would, I'm only saying they could, and it wouldn't be impossible to be succesfull.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:36
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And it sure hell would be better plan to try that one, than wait in home for bombs to drop and battle on their own backyards?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:41 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Let me respond to this thread:
Absolutely no way in one trillion years the Arabs could defeat the USA in the current war.

The Arab world attacking Israel would not be possible. The arabs in no way can defeat Israel... why? Not because of military enlistment numbers or equipment but the short range nuclear weapons Israel has. If Israel gets into a war and starts to lose (which is extremely highly unlikely) it will threaten to launch a couple short range nukes.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:46
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I'd say never say never. It has been ALWAYS the big problem in western armies.. underestimating the enemy. Which is the mother of all f#ups.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:49 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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That is your opinion.

spartak is offline spartak
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Dec 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 04:50
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Of course if the Arabs cut off the oil they would bring the whole world to its knees...

You don't need to win a battle to win a war (although that helps).

Lord Merciless is offline Lord Merciless
Warlord
USA
Jul 2002
time: 22:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Spartak
Of course if the Arabs cut off the oil they would bring the whole world to its knees...

You don't need to win a battle to win a war (although that helps).


First, the world doesn't depend on Arab oils, they are only the cheapest.

Second, most Arab countries are not self-sufficient in food production. Stopping oil export would mean starvation. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and all Gulf states rely on desalination of sea water to get water supply. We can just blow up these desalination plants and see what happens.

Third, we can conquer those oil fields. Desert is ideal for modern weapons and horrible guerillas.

Grrr is offline Grrr
King
of Hamilton, New-Zealand.
Dec 2000
time: 18:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 09:13 Visit Grrr's homepage!
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It depends on how you look at it; in my opinion a defeat of America is the point where America's citizens have lost all freedom.

A well placed nuke or two will achieve this result. If for instance a nuke is detonated in Washington and in Jerusalem; the results would be disasterous for America. A couple of phoney threats and the cities will stream empty, as well as a shadow government being in place for the United States. Freedom of movement, freedom of speech and all general other forms of freedom will sink to oblivion.

However, the US will probably detonate 1000 nukes over the Middle East which could be regarded as non achievement of the goal.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 09:27
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Hmmm.

I wonder what the response to a similar question re the North Vietnamese would have been in 1965?

Never count your parades till you've won the last battle.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 10:41 Visit Dis's homepage!
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err I'm pretty sure the middle east has already won.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 23-08-2002 10:51 Visit Dis's homepage!
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When I think about it I think it would be easy to bring down america.

First of all lets rewind back to Sept11. We were most vulnerable at this stage.

I believe a massive attack could be coordinated if need be.

First of all there would need to be at least 200 hijacked planes. One into every building over 20 stories. Sure there may be some Beamer stories like in Penssylvania. But I figure 75% succes rate (as what really happenned)

Next biological weapons. Anthrax into major cities combined with smallpox. Use crop dusters for this.

Next poision water supplies. This need not be lethal does as that would require too much chemical. Just enough to contaminate every major cities water supply. This would cause people to panic and when the bottled water runs out they are ****ed.

Next would be to rent at least 5000 ryder trucks and stack them with fuel oil and manure. Use these on every major cities hosipitals and goverment buildings.

next would be arson. use any remaining terrorist manpower to set fires to all of the west.

Next blow up gas stations. As many as possible.

Of course all of this needs to happen on Sept 11.

It's just that easy to bring down the mightiest country in the world.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 12:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Merciless
First, the world doesn't depend on Arab oils, they are only the cheapest.


You're kidding. Why did you think there was an oil crisis?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 13:01
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A lot has changed since the 70's.

spartak is offline spartak
King

Dec 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 13:31
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Not that much - there isn't enough oil in the world if we took the ME oil out of the equation....

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 13:59
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Really? Hmmm. I would have thought that things like developing fields that have more oil (heavy) than Saudi Arabia, things like making a friends with Russia, and other factors would effect the equation.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 15:18
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If the standard were the Arabs claiming victory, then I think that they can / already have. They claimed victory when the PLO was forcefully ejected from Beirut, and when the coalition crushed Iraqi forces in the Gulf War. Every concievable action or inaction by others seems to be capable of either causing unbearable shame or an undeserved cause for celebration by the Arabs.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 15:27
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If there was real threat to oil supplies not just a big rise in price wouldn't The US( and probably Europe if they couldn't run their cars) just take it

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 15:45
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quote:
First, the world doesn't depend on Arab oils, they are only the cheapest.


50% of the remaining oil is in arab hands (iraq, iran etc)

you said somewhere that we are working on alternative means, sure, the hydrogen powered car for example? yup it exists already but it is far from finished, it'll take them about 10 more years to fine tune it so it's absolutely ready for mass use, and on top of that, every gasstation in the world would have to change from oil to a very expensive hydrogen station...

you see, if you want to refill your tank, you can't do it yourself, it's icy cold and you'll freeze your hands, so expensive equipment is needed to fuel automatically...


secondly, large oilfields are getting depleted as we speak, the smaller oilfields too, in a few years they will be depleted, sure there are a whole lot of small oilfields we could use, but the cost compared to the benefit is too high for it to be profitable, so we're having a problem

right now Australia has lost a lot of oil production, simply because their fields are being depleted, and the rest will follow, that's why the middle east is so important, they have the largest oil fields left

btw don't count on russia, their pipes leaked as much oil as they received oil, a true environmental disaster... ah well

i was told that the next 5 years were crucial and that the US really should start looking a bit further in the future instead of concentrzating on the current state of their wicked 'economy' as if everybody on this planet cared about their economy...

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 16:34
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In any case , The US has enough oil to ... say... operate a large military force , and project it ... say... into the region of the gulf.

che: Muslim != ethnicity.

in any case , Arabs don't have the logistics. They never had. Bin Laden's feat did require major logistics, but not even nearing the scale of a full war against the US.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 19:50
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If we made the mistake of letting the the non-Brit Euros take a bigger role, they could screw things up so badly that we might lose. Look at Bosina where the Frogs sabatoged NATO operations repeatedly, tipping off the Serbs and such.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 19:56
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You don't want to go to Bosnia.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 19:58
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Bosnia is up there with the Congo and Afghanistan on the list of places not to go. I believe Texas is 4th

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 20:00
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Hehe.. Ok I'll just rest my case, I'm not up to this one.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I believe Texas is 4th

Lexa Doig would be welcome here.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola

Lexa Doig would be welcome here.


No seriously, Texas isn't all bad. I'm sure their is a good person in that state .

Lemmy is offline Lemmy
King
Bubblewrap
Dec 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 20:49 Visit Lemmy's homepage!
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The US can't win, and here's why.
First, they're fighting terrorists now, based in other countries, this makes it almost impossible to take 'm all out, unless invading each of those countries.
But if they start doing that, they would have to invade a few allies too, and also countries a lot stronger then Afghanistan, countries that might actually put up a fight.
Once these countries are conquered, the US still has make sure that the terrorists don't come back there, which would also cost considerable resources.
Then with every new country they invade, there is the chance of the rest of the world turning against the US, not military, but economically, and this could be just as devastating as any terrorist attack.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 21:11
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quote:
The US can't win


but the arabs can?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 21:18 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
che: Muslim != ethnicity.


D'oh! Brain fart, meant Arab the last time I wrote Muslim.

Lemmy is offline Lemmy
King
Bubblewrap
Dec 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 21:49 Visit Lemmy's homepage!
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quote:
but the arabs can?

You mean terrorists or countries?
Countries, no.
Terrorists, yes.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 23-08-2002 22:00
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Even terrorists can't . Heck , Terrorist's only cover are civilians. If SHTF noone would care , and not even Mr. Bin Laden can escape carpet bombings, MRLS launchers, etc. etc. There is no way they could actually win. The US is waaay too strong.

 
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