23-10-2000 01:55									#1
	Why get the human players SUCH different starts? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi!

My friend and I tried several times to play CTP together, but we never finished. It is always the same: One of us has from the beginning a prospering civilization and the other has severe problems. Last time it was me who had such bad luck, the last game my boyfriend. While I had destroyers he had just discovered gunpowder. Sure he got angry. We play in the chieftain level with barbarians ruins only. Regular map. The last game I made it it a bit more warm, wet and more Ocean. And a bit more goods. And I chose three AI.
It is always the same: one is extremely good, the other very bad, but it changes from game to game, who.
Now he does not want to play anymore.
But I'd like to very much, but not with the extreme bad luck, I had in the game before the last game.
Did you experience the same?
Have you any suggestions, what to do?

	23-10-2000 02:04									#2
	Got spare money?

I guess you are right, it is pretty close of impossible to give all players the exact same start... However you can compensate for it in different ways, and besides its like that in the World as well, some nations are resource rich and others are barren wastelands.. so there is a level of realism.
Basically what I'm saying is, take it as part of the game, its pretty hard to change that, and its not a bug.. its a feature.

	23-10-2000 02:56									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There are many ways to even up the start. Try these-

1. Play on a harder level so you both get only one settler, as the lower levels can give one player a second settler while the other only gets one.

2. Play with more players. Alliances between weaker players can reduce the gap to the leader by swapping sciences, etc.

3. Play on a tiny map. It's fraught with danger - for both sides, as the stronger player is vulnerable to early attack before he/she gets to consolidate their position.

4. Try cooler and wet with diverse settings. Uniform tends to make it more one-sided, while cooler and wet should give at least the first two players river starts - essential to having any chance whatsoever.

5. Create your own scenario (if you know how). Then you can toggle the landscape to even up the start to your hearts content.

6. Try all of the above. If that doesn't work, then one of you (or both) is wimping out

	24-10-2000 05:44									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Hi King Thor!

I cannot believe this. We played several hours, but the bad luck from the beginning can't be wiped out by good playing. After ca. 3 hours of playing I had 10 times more people than my friend. Sure I can make more seddlers and so on. And (funny) I thought, I got bad area. (very cold ...).
We argue, that it depends on the advances one gets from the start. Perhaps we try another time, try to meet each other and exchange advances. Perhaps this helps, but I'm not sure.

But multiplaying is not fun, if the one suffers so extremely. And, as I said before, it is not always the same, who suffers.

Many greetings from good cold Germany,
Dani

	29-10-2000 04:05									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hi

I believe that if you change UseNiceStart= Yes to No
in both Userprofile.txt and profile.txt files it might give the desired effect that you want.

	29-10-2000 05:21									#6
	Tired of ads?

Is this a general thing? Could it be used for PBEM games as well... It would be nice for everyone to get anice start... What does it do?

	31-10-2000 00:05									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Stavros

I think it doesn't give the first player in the list the best start, but hopefully it wouldn't give anybody the best start. Like all those stupid rivers you get. Rivers are too powerful in the very early game. Though it depends on the skill of the player whether he can take advantage of this little bonus. I picked this info up off the Ctp general forums a long time ago. I have tried it with single player games and it works, not sure about PBEM though. It wouldn't be hard to find out. Just create a small PBEM game and open up the turns and compare.

This start crap is just another thing in a very long list that has left me cursing Ctp. I hate the game (except for mods and multiplay) but I do believe that it had some potential to be very good. Hope number 2 is greatly improved, but I have this feeling that this start nonsense will not be addressed.
[This message has been edited by Max Webster (edited October 30, 2000).]

	01-11-2000 03:14									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, I made a 4 way symmetrical map for any of you who are interested. I tried to create the map exactly equal for players in regard to terrain and goods (while trying hard not to make it look too much like a Parcheesi board!)

Theoretically, playing on this map should eliminate any complaints about "unfair starts" that I have heard so much about. The down side, of course, is that the mystery and surprise factor is eliminated from the game (in regards to terrain and goods exploration). However, some would see this as an "upside". That is, to focus on the strategy and tactics of the game as opposed to who lucks out with their exploration.

Send me an email at steveq@gte.net if you'd like to see the sym4way.csg map.

Best regards to all.