23-08-2002 04:28									#1
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I was thinking the other day (don't ask me why) about the great revolutions of history, and what it would take for a modern society today to undergo such a thing.

First, what was the most significant revolution of history? By this, I mean a political revolution--an armed, violent uprising of the people that overthrows an entrenched state government. Everyone seems to hold up the mantle of the French Revolution as the standard, but was that really the most significant revolt in history? Couldn't the American Revolution be seen as just as significant, especially since it heavily influence the French uprising? Or is it the the Russian Revolution? The English Civil War? Or even further back...

Second, we can, with hindsight, point to all the various factors that caused the revolutions. Most of the most significant ones occured in nations that were seen as world leaders at the time.

So could this happen today, in our Western democracies? Or is capitalism the surefire cure to avoiding such things?

Discuss.

Hugs and kisses to Ming.

	23-08-2002 04:30									#2
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Ohg good - his ban is over. Does that mean we get some peace over the road?

	23-08-2002 04:30									#3
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I was watching you create the thread... and I had two windows open... one to restrict you, and one to get rid of the thread...



Carry on...

	23-08-2002 04:31									#4
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You can watch us AS we create something?

Ooooooooooh...

	23-08-2002 04:32									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Spartak Ohg good - his ban is over. Does that mean we get some peace over the road?

Not a chance, fuzznuts.

	23-08-2002 04:33									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You can watch us AS we create something?

Yep... I did say in the PM that you would be watched

But back on topic.

Revolutions happen all the time in Democracies... but they are called elections

	23-08-2002 04:34									#7
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The American revolution was pretty major, I'm not sure which out of the American and French revolutions was more pivotal though. The French revolution did influence Europe, which was pretty influencial itself. But the American revoltion affected other countries too.

	23-08-2002 04:35									#8
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Ming: I specified violent revolutions, though.

	23-08-2002 04:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Ming: I specified violent revolutions, though.

What would call Bush's victory over Gore

	23-08-2002 04:44									#10
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Fraud?

	23-08-2002 04:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Spartak Fraud?

Exactly.

What about the English Civil War? First time a European Monarch of a nation-state is executed by his own people...that's pretty significant.

	23-08-2002 04:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Exactly. What about the English Civil War? First time a European Monarch of a nation-state is executed by his own people...that's pretty significant.

It would have been if we didn't then go and put his son on the throne, who even had the same name.

	23-08-2002 04:57									#13
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But the power of the Monarch was never the same after Charlie I, though, was it?

	23-08-2002 04:58									#14
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon It would have been if we didn't then go and put his son on the throne, who even had the same name.

and an early afro...

	23-08-2002 05:01									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But the power of the Monarch was never the same after Charlie I, though, was it?

No, I was kidding in that post (forgot smiley).

Oliver Cromwell was an even worse leader though. Banning dancing and colourful clothes makes even the likes of Pat Buchanen look like an anarchist

	23-08-2002 05:03									#16
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Yes, because we all know how much Pat likes to get jiggy wit it.

	23-08-2002 05:07									#18
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Edit: Nevermind!

I know there are more history buffs around waiting to argue about this, come on.

The French Revolution was a meaningless bunch of twaddle!

Discuss.

Last edited by Boris Godunov on 23-08-2002 at 05:14

	23-08-2002 05:18									#19
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You need a significant portion of the armed forces on your side for a modern revolution, ideally the whole kit 'n kiboodle. It doesn't matter how many pistol-toting rednecks you've got on your side if the other guy has tanks and bombers on his.

	23-08-2002 06:54									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Exactly.

Last I checked, the Constitution came through unbent.

	23-08-2002 06:58									#21
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I would have to say that the Athenian revolution was the most significant. It gave the world the first democracy.

After that, the French Revolution sounded the death knoll of feudalism and spread the capitalist order across Europe.

The third great revolution was the Russian Revolution, which showed that workers can take power for themselves, even if it went sour later.

What would it take for a successful revolution today? First of all, it takes a group organized and prepared to take power. Generally these don't exist, because nay smart government suppresses them.

The next ingrediant is a disaster (man made or natural) that the government can't handle. This destroyed the legitimacy of the rulers, and allows the alternative power to step in and take power. Sometimes the revolutionaries create the disaster through civil war, but most often they are just organized opposition groups that get "lucky."

	23-08-2002 07:02									#22
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The third great revolution was the Russian Revolution, which showed that workers can take power for themselves, even if it went sour later.

Actually I'd have said the Mensheviks were more on track than the Bolsheviks.

	23-08-2002 07:09									#23
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French and American revolutions (combined because of their natures and time period, though they both ended in radically different ways)

	23-08-2002 07:11									#24
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I'd agree with Comrade Chegitz. Athenian, French, and Russian were each the most far-reaching, and each broke down barriers that may have been thought impossible previously.

	23-08-2002 07:17									#25
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I'd say the French revolution was more important for Democracy since the American revolution, contrary to popular opinion, wasn't really all that democratic. Instead of giving power to the people, it gave power to a small number of land-owning elite. Poor whites, women, blacks, and native americans weren't even considered "people". At least, they certainly didn't fit into Jefferson's egalitarian equation of all men being equal.

France was much more idealist at least, and paved the way for "liberty", as we know it.

	23-08-2002 07:18									#26
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People seem to forget about the English Civil War, which meant that Britain was henceforth ruled by a bunch of idiots instead of just one idiot...

Why are they called Civil Wars anyway - they never seem to be very civil...

	23-08-2002 07:18									#27
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monkspider - I agree with what you say, but I don't feel that that discredits it as one of the most important historical revolutions

	23-08-2002 07:20									#28
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon The American revolution was pretty major, I'm not sure which out of the American and French revolutions was more pivotal though. The French revolution did influence Europe, which was pretty influencial itself. But the American revoltion affected other countries too.

You can't compare the two. The French Revolution didn't accomplish much more than giving democracy a bad name in Europe, and it ended the age of classicism and enlightenment. Yes it inspired the revolutionary movements in the mid 19th century, but many of these movemnts also acquired the preferrence for violence, revenge, and dictatorship which plagued the revolution of 1789. The people of Europe wouild have been better off without the bad example set in France.

	23-08-2002 07:21									#29
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Orange- Oh it was certainly important, and without question one of the most important actually, if for nothing else than it created what would come to be the most powerful western Empire since Rome.

	23-08-2002 07:30									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS People seem to forget about the English Civil War, which meant that Britain was henceforth ruled by a bunch of idiots instead of just one idiot...

We did mention it, had several posts about it.