26-08-2002 08:22									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed yeah, i haven't seen it. what little i know of it i got from various reviews, so my apologies about the origin of the nuke. perhaps i should see the movie to understand why exactly white neo-nazis would want to bomb a white united states... and how white neo-nazi anti-semites ever got a hold of a jewish atomic weapon...

Because the white neo-nazis run the European Union and for some reason it is good for the EU if America and Russia nuke themselves.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

	26-08-2002 08:24									#32
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Because the white neo-nazis run the European Union

There wasn't any mention of the EU in the movie, ya parnoid nancy.

	26-08-2002 08:27									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc There wasn't any mention of the EU in the movie, ya parnoid nancy.

Well, it called it the European Community, which is essentially the same thing. And 'European Aryan nations all working together'.

	26-08-2002 09:27									#34
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quote: Ok, they have a single flaw, but that flaw doesn't manage to prevent them from saving the day or getting the girl. It comes close to preventing them, but they overcome whatever it is.

You just described 90% of all fiction .

	26-08-2002 09:41									#35
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Oh, and apparently nuclear bombs can survive such explosions and remain intact.

Fission Bombs contain one or more explosive charges used to compress the fissionable material. The external casing has to be tough enough to contain the triggering explosion or the thing wouldn't work. With such a tough casing it may not be as ridicuous as you think that such a device dould survive an external explosion.


So Ben Affleck stars in the worst movie of the year two years in a row? Unfortunately these bombs make money. I wonder if his lack of talent will ever catch up with him?

	26-08-2002 11:19									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Ok, they have a single flaw, but that flaw doesn't manage to prevent them from saving the day or getting the girl. It comes close to preventing them, but they overcome whatever it is. You just described 90% of all fiction .

That was my point!
I like my fiction to be somewhat beliveable.
The almost-perfect heros aren't.

	26-08-2002 12:01									#37
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You deserve what you get if you knowingly go into a movie like that. Honestly…

p.s. I want to see the new remastered Metropolis! Looks soooo good. Pure arthouse

	26-08-2002 14:39									#38
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I thought the book was sh!ite, so I had no intentions of going to see the movie. I honestly can't understand how the movie could possible be worse than the book.....

	26-08-2002 16:22									#39
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It's a Hollywood movie - what do you expect?

Most Hollywood movies are utter sh*te!

BTW I saw The Blair Witch Project last night on TV - god I'm glad I didn't waste any real money going to the movies to see that total f*cking drivel!

	26-08-2002 16:38									#40
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i agree red_jon

I laughed my ass off through half of it. My favourite parts were how many people survived the disaster, and how ben affleck was running around through downtown baltimore not 10 minutes after the bomb went off.

It was completely unrealistic and not worth the price of admission

oh, the 'deathbed' scene made me laugh too

	26-08-2002 18:32									#41
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Has anyone seen 'The Sum of all Fears'? I saw it at the cinema and this film is the worst I've seen in a while - at least Signs (with it's seemingly infinite plot holes) has suspense. I saw this film as going badly at the very beggining, when a military plane was blown up carrying a nuclear missile. Even though the plane and its pilot were incinerated in the air, the photograph of his wife and child survived. So apparently in 1973 kodak invented explosion-proof photographs - which allowed for an incredibly overused cliche (the wreckage being surveyed and the photograph lying amongst it). Oh, and apparently nuclear bombs can survive such explosions and remain intact. And speaking of cliches, why did the African-American guy die just as he was revealing important information to Ben Affleck? How ****ing overused is that? It is a sign of incredibly lazy (or incompetant) directing to still have a 'They key is hidden in the ..aaah' death scene. The ending made me want to throw up. Wow, Ben Affleck and the pretty girl stayed together? Wow, what a surprise, they live happily ever after and every single bad guy dies! The thing that was worst about the film however, was that unlike films created during the Cold War, the enemy was the European Union . You start to get an inkling of anti-Europeanism near the beggining, when a European is talking to some branch of the EU about standing on our own two feet and he has a swastika on his watch. Then later in the film it goes on about how Europe is 'far-right' and it is 'Aryan nations working together for the first time'. That's strange, I was under the impression that the EU was mainly left-liberal. All in all this film is lazy, improbable and downright offensive. So what did you think of it?

after reading this, i'm so going to see this movie. unintentional entertainment is the best kind

	26-08-2002 19:01									#42
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Well, I haven't read Clear and Present Danger. But he's too patriotic for me. I detest that in a writer, creates such a strong antagony in me , that, at times, I even caught myself siding with the treehuggers in rainbow six.

	26-08-2002 19:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I even caught myself siding with the treehuggers in rainbow six.

Before or after you killed them.

	26-08-2002 19:05									#44
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Well, it called it the European Community, which is essentially the same thing. And 'European Aryan nations all working together'.

My God! You are paranoid. No EU governments were involved in the making of either the movie or the video game.

	26-08-2002 19:07									#45
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that must ring a certain way with yankees. "all aryan nations working together for the first time" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA TREMBLE TREMBLE TREMBLE

	26-08-2002 19:09									#46
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DD: amazingly enough , I never played R6. I meant the book .

	26-08-2002 19:11									#47
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There's a book?

	26-08-2002 19:18									#48
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Imagine that. Tom Clancy does books too , these days!

	26-08-2002 19:18									#49
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I quit reading Tom Clancy after Debt of Honor. He feels like he has to top himself in every book, and his plots have gone way past being ridiculous.

	26-08-2002 19:41									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael A friend of mine, who also happens to have read everything by Tom Clancy, said that Hunt For Red October was really the only good movie based on a Tom Clancy book.

Having read everything also, I must agree.

The worst was Clear and Present Danger. The book ending with Ryan pissing on himself behind the machine gun in the helicopter was a great ending. SO, of course, they had to change it to that boring roof chase scene in the movie. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING.

I'll wait to see SUM until it's on cable for free.
Not falling for that one again.

RAH

	26-08-2002 21:17									#51
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They always **** up Clancy stories. Red October was a good movie, but even then silly changes were made (like part of the ending... for no apparent reason that I could see).

Clear & Present Danger was an ok book and a mediocre movie. Patriot Games was slightly better in both forms.

I didn't like the book much, so I have no intention of seeing Sum of All Fears.

Clancy is very much a flag-waving patriot, but his flag-waving does not extend to Americans he decides are bad... this usually involves corruption or incompetence. This is a man who dreams of an honest, principled, capable, and yet reluctant, man as President (hence, Ryan becoming president at the end of Debt of Honor). 'Tis a pleasant fantasy.

-Arrian

	26-08-2002 22:18									#52
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These days most of Tom Clancy's books are farmed out to other writers. I think that "Sum of All Fears" may have been the last one he wrote personally.

I've long thought it weird that an Irish-American wrote a novel that portrays the IRA as the bad guys.

	26-08-2002 23:22									#53
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Dr. Strangelove : well, in "Rainbow Six" he makes his stance rather clear on the subject, through the main hero in the book , John Clark , who's also an Irish-American.

quote: Clancy is very much a flag-waving patriot, but his flag-waving does not extend to Americans he decides are bad

I know that. I have no problem with those people as people, but I don't like them as writers.

	26-08-2002 23:50									#54
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I saw the movie before I read the book, and liked both.

Any attempt to correlate the two of them will end in frustration because they are quite different stories.

	27-08-2002 03:00									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian This is a man who dreams of an honest, principled, capable, and yet reluctant, man as President (hence, Ryan becoming president at the end of Debt of Honor). 'Tis a pleasant fantasy. -Arrian

yep, it certainly is

but i've always pictured Jack Ryan as slightly to the left of Ronald Reagan (to say the least) , who seems to be Clancy's ideal

	27-08-2002 03:05									#56
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quote: My favourite parts were how many people survived the disaster

Well the bomb wasn't done correctly. There was a nuclear reaction, but it wasn't set up right, so it was much, much smaller than basically any atomic bomb. Great explination of it in the book.

	27-08-2002 03:20									#57
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I would have liked it much more if they blew up Denver then Baltimore. If they blew up Baltimore where would I go to party?

	27-08-2002 03:22									#58
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I still don't understand WHY Russia and America nuking each other was beneficial to the Europeans

edit : (in the sum of all fears)

	27-08-2002 03:28									#59
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I still don't understand WHY Russia and America nuking each other was beneficial to the Europeans

For f*cks sake, the EU wasn't behind the damned plot.

Staples the message to rj's forehead.

	27-08-2002 03:33									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc For f*cks sake, the EU wasn't behind the damned plot. Staples the message to rj's forehead.

I just said EUROPEANS. As in the European bad guys. No Union mentioned in that post. What did they stand to gain? I still don't get it.