27-08-2002 03:34									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by red_jon What did they stand to gain? I still don't get it.

The Fascists wanted to sieze power in the resulting chaos.

	27-08-2002 03:38									#62
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The Fascists wanted to sieze power in the resulting chaos.

Seize what power? Their money would be worthless and there are still US troops stationed in Europe anyway who would fight them (not to mention British, French, German troops, etc).

And seizing power in either Russia or America would be pointless as they'd be devastated. Unless their dream is ruling over a bunch of starving people in useless decimated cities.

Still no good reason. Do they actually have one?

	27-08-2002 03:41									#63
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by red_jon Still no good reason. Do they actually have one?

You're starting to get to the reason why I like the rewrite less than the original version.

	27-08-2002 03:57									#64
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The politics of the movie are so unrealistic as to spoil it even if the action sequences were good. The very idea of an American president sending peacekeepers into Chechnya to set up the Russian/US confrontation is ridiculous.

I don't remember the book's plot device for Russian/US tensions. Can anyone who has read book recently remind us?

However, the book's basic idea that Palestinian terrorist would use the bomb to set of a nuclear war between Russia and the United States is not improbable at all. I thought the book was one of the best books I had ever read at the time. But I agree, the movie is pathetic.

	27-08-2002 04:03									#65
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ned However, the book's basic idea that Palestinian terrorist would use the bomb to set of a nuclear war between Russia and the United States is not improbable at all. I thought the book was one of the best books I had ever read at the time. But I agree, the movie is pathetic.

I would see the motive for a palestinian. I would have thought rich Europeans would be against it, even if they are Nazis. How can they make a political thriller without the enemy having a motive?

	28-08-2002 12:28									#66
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Clancy still writes the Jack Ryan books, and I believe he does the study in command books as well.

In the book, the Arab terrorists want the US and Russia to fight so that they can reclaim their lands from Israel after a brokered peace. They also include an infiltration in Berlin to start a Soviet attack on the American base there, and there is a mistake in the Med and the North Pacific in a naval showdown that gets blown out of proportion.

I thought that the movie was terrible in comparison with the book, not the least because of the deaging of Jack Ryan. However, with Clancy's newest offering, Red Rabbit, and the fact that the Cardinal of the Kremlin still needs to be made into a movie (IMHO, the best chance for a book to movie plot for Clancy), Afflek can play Ryan for at least two more movies

	28-08-2002 13:00									#67
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Obviously the producers made a mistake.

A better move would have been to make the Amish in Pennsylvania steal and set off the nuke. With America destroyed the Amish would rule the entire North American continent.

	29-08-2002 04:53									#68
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Ned I don't remember the book's plot device for Russian/US tensions. Can anyone who has read book recently remind us? However, the book's basic idea that Palestinian terrorist would use the bomb to set of a nuclear war between Russia and the United States is not improbable at all. I thought the book was one of the best books I had ever read at the time. But I agree, the movie is pathetic.

The plot device was, the president not being sure he could trust the info he was getting from the Russians. The Russians are diarming as fast as they can, but somewhere along the way the CIA catches wind that the Russians might be missing some warheads.

Which they are not.

	29-08-2002 04:56									#69
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dissident Obviously the producers made a mistake. A better move would have been to make the Amish in Pennsylvania steal and set off the nuke. With America destroyed the Amish would rule the entire North American continent.

I think the villains not having an actual motive is something more than just a mistake, especially in a political 'thriller'. The producers should be shot. Seventeen times.

	29-08-2002 04:56									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Midshipman In the book, the Arab terrorists want the US and Russia to fight so that they can reclaim their lands from Israel after a brokered peace. They also include an infiltration in Berlin to start a Soviet attack on the American base there, and there is a mistake in the Med and the North Pacific in a naval showdown that gets blown out of proportion.

Actually if you read the ending of the book, you will remember that they weren't trying to get the US and Russia into a fight.

They were actually setting up Iran to be nuked by the Americans. Thereby making the Americans, truly, the "Great Satan".

But Jack Ryan said that the president wasn't competent enough to authorize the strike.

	29-08-2002 04:58									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski They were actually setting up Iran to be nuked by the Americans. Thereby making the Americans, truly, the "Great Satan".

No, he's correct. The US was never supposed to find out about the Iranian connection.

	29-08-2002 05:02									#72
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No, he's correct. The US was never supposed to find out about the Iranian connection.

Yes, thet were, I just read the book again about a month ago, you have to read carefully after Clark and Ding capture the leader of the terrorists.

	29-08-2002 05:05									#73
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Then why the set-up in Berlin?

	29-08-2002 05:14									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'll have to get back to you, I'll bring the book to work tomorrow and type in exactly what is said.

	29-08-2002 05:16									#75
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks. I got the book from a library when I read it a while ago and can not readily check myself.

	29-08-2002 05:17									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm at work, so I can't check now either.

	29-08-2002 15:42									#77
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

this sh!t is coming here in 5 september, not one day too soon

i'll go see it because, thanks redjon