25-08-2002 21:35									#1
	What to do with the archers stack Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Now that the archers have successfully taken Orleans, we should discuss what to do with them next, as well as how many of them we should leave in Orleans.
My suggestion is as follows: leave 3 units in Orleans (one wounded spearman, another archer and the wounded archer that is currently there) to guard and heal while the rest (1 spearman, 3 archers) head to Chartres. Chartres is an important target because it will allow us to connect Orleans and Paris to the rest of our empire, bringing them much-needed dyes to solve their unhappiness problems.
The 3 archers should be able to take Chartres without suffering heavy casualties. Once they do, they should head to Rheims where the wounded archer (now completely healed) will rejoin the stack. Rheims will either fall or be handed over to us in a peace deal with France.

What are your opinions?

	26-08-2002 05:26									#2
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Shibber,

I'm not sure going immediately to Chartres would be a good idea: Chartres has no culture and is size 2. As Joan will probably poprush a spearman if we approach her city, it would mean that we destroy it.

I can see two other solutions for Chartres:
1) Include it in the peace bargain with Joan in 3 or 4 turns from now
2) Let it culture flip as it is now surronded by our empire ans not too far from our capital city

	26-08-2002 05:44									#3
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I can't remember what it's called, but they should go to the current capital, while the other stack should go to the other size 3. Lyons will be the eventual french capital

	26-08-2002 06:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Epistax I can't remember what it's called, but they should go to the current capital, while the other stack should go to the other size 3. Lyons will be the eventual french capital

Absolutely, Chartres is of no concern as its in the middle of the jungle and can only have a production of one. It's not going anywhere. While, we have the initiative we should send both stacks north to take the two respective cities.

Once things quiet down we can declare a quick war and take Chartres. No biggie, but we should take the two cities to the north and declare peace to make it easier to get peace form the Germans and Persians who will be all irritated with France for getting them into a war and then abandoning them.

We also would have an easier time with Paris and Orleans if the operation is quicker. Taking Chartres means sacrificing the French capital and leaving it within our borders.

	26-08-2002 06:49									#5
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I still don't want to immediate pursue an attack on RHeims(the capital), I would rather wait till the swordsmen have taken marselles and then we will have both forces converging on Rheims for a final battle of this war. However what the archer stack does before that battle, is up in the air. I was thinking chartes, but we could go south and take the next city down. Its not a jungle city and the odds are better. Remember I do intend to attack Rheims, so the attacks are not instead of, but before. Generally I think we will get one of these 2 cities + a 1pop city in surrender negotiations. I see chartes as a must since we need those luxury via road and all I don't like haveing an enemy city in my area. Yes it might culturely flip, but it might take a long long time. If we save it for the next war that means some of our force must take it first. After that they will have aways to go to get to the real battle. So lets keep ourselves cohesive. Here's my current plan. 5Sword attack marselles. We lose 1 in assault and 2 stay for defense. This means 2 swords from sword army will participate in Rheims attack. Archer force will attack with 4 archer next town. Lose 1 archer. Then leave 1spear and one archer for defense. This leaves 3 archers on the Rheims attack. We could send 2 of those archers instead(1 each to paris and 1 marselles) and send spear from orleans to paris. Keeping a archer in orleans. Then we can have 3 of the 4 swords also participating in attack on rheims. I think a 5 sword force could easily take it. Howeber these are broad plans. Do know I will consult this thread often and use the ideas that seem best.
Aggie

	26-08-2002 06:55									#6
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I would just suggest attacking both cities at the same time for the sake of ending the war ASAP, although the AI is sure to demand a certain # of turns before willing to speak. Damn I hate that. If your the one that declares war, they should be listening for peace talks right away.

	26-08-2002 07:09									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Epistax I would just suggest attacking both cities at the same time for the sake of ending the war ASAP, although the AI is sure to demand a certain # of turns before willing to speak. Damn I hate that. If your the one that declares war, they should be listening for peace talks right away.

I agree I think each stack could take their respective city. Rhiems only just became the capital so I wouldn't think it would have a large force built up in it. Besides it was an outskirt city before that.

	26-08-2002 16:08									#8
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I suggested that we take Chartres mainly so we can provide our French towns with dyes to solve their unhappiness problems, but now that I think of it again I see it would take some time to connect Chartres with a road anyway so we can wait until we reach terms with the French.
If we still can't get Chartres I suggest we get Rouen instead and build one harbor there and another somewhere in Mingapulco so we can trade by sea. By then we should have at least one wine tile within our borders.

	26-08-2002 17:06									#9
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hi ,

there is wine in Paris , ...

what we really need to do is to connect all our cities by road for the trade ( extra income ) and top move troops faster , ....

harbors should be build to produce trade veteran naval units and this is very important , to get more food (!)

the stck should be used to go after marseille

have a nice day

	26-08-2002 17:26									#10
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I say do not attack Chartres or Rouin (sp) directly- sue for them. IF we cannot sue for both, we should try to have a stack ready outside of one of them. Take the city, and that same turn, sue for the other and anything else. It's my experience that when they're ready to talk, nothing short of diplomatic alliances against them or a nuke will take them away from peace talks, including further invasion.

	26-08-2002 17:57									#11
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I second that.

	26-08-2002 22:33									#12
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My problem is what if we attack Rheims with a 1spear 4 archers and lose the war is over. I'm not saying we will but that it is possible. There will be 3 spear in Rheim by the time we attack. So 4 vs 3, now we have 4 points each, so real adds are 16:9 on hitpoints. However we have established that capitals get wall bonus so suddenly the odd are 16:13.5. Plus a 25 fortification bonus =16:15.75. That means we have a 50 chance of loseing and that means we would only get marselles. With the smaller force unable to attack we might get less in negotiations. On the other hand if we attack elsewhere first we might lose some archers ,yes, but we might get some upgrades. Also the swords would then help on Rheims. Also it is possible, not likly, but possibel that after Rheims we will have enough troops to push west ward and seize or at least threaten iron city. Either way negotiations will be helped.
Aggie

	26-08-2002 22:46									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Then again, Chartres is not a great target either. They have 2 pop and they might poprush another defender so we won't capture Chartres, we'll destroy it. I'd rather get Chartres in a surrendering agreement than destroy it.
I guess we'll have to take our chances with Rheims. Perhaps it'd be a good idea to move one swordsman to Rheims to help the archers.

	26-08-2002 23:04									#14
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We march both stacks north and leave the spearmen to hold Marseilles(after the swordsmen take it), and attack Rheims with our swordsmen and archers. Or send the spearmen to relieve swordsmen in Paris-are there any in Paris?

I just think sending the archer stack after Chartres or Rouen will slow down the assault on Rheims, which in my opinion is the end of the war.

If we're given a choice in the peace process I'd take Chartres over Rouen anyday.

	26-08-2002 23:19									#15
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If we eventually attack Rheims then we should do it after we attack Marseilles, otherwise the capital might change to Marseilles.

	26-08-2002 23:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber If we eventually attack Rheims then we should do it after we attack Marseilles, otherwise the capital might change to Marseilles.

I think that's pretty much a given.

Uh, it is isn't it?

Please don't tell me we're going to try to sack three French capitals in a row. I now UnOrthy has a grudge to settle but sheesh!

French Secretary of the Ministry- " Lady Joan, we must mo........."

Joan of Arc-"I know, LeFrogge. We must move the capital. Fortunately, after the third move we installed everything on wheels..............."

	27-08-2002 04:41									#18
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Aggie: I've got two minor suggestions. I know they're obvious but I just want to make sure you put them into your orders in case you forgot to:
1. Once the spearman gets into position south of Rheims it should fortify.
2. Not all four archers can move to Rheims this turn. One has exhausted its movement points when it took Orleans. I suggest that the archers stack waits an additional turn for this archer to arrive so that they can attack with full might (with 4 archers instead of just 3).

	27-08-2002 04:53									#19
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Would you consider waiting 1-3 turns to set orleans into order? I understand that with archers it is best to move fast, but orleans is in disorder and without some units spending 1-3 turns it will stay as such.

	27-08-2002 05:06									#20
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We're already leaving a spearman (the wounded one) and the archer that's already there as garrisons. I'm afraid we can't spare any more units if we want to capture Rheims.

	27-08-2002 05:23									#21
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I understand. Just wishfull thinking. I want everything, and I want it now.....

(can you tell I am an American, single white male???)

	27-08-2002 05:27									#22
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god king as metioned by Shiber i will wait a turn before moving the army anywhere. So I will move the army into aorleans. Hoipefully the presense of 4 offinsive units will do the job in one turn. I will leave an archer there regardless. Also upon review I decided if we don't move n immediately we will move S since chartes is in the jungle it is a harder target. I want an easy target since this attack is an extra optional attack. Ofcourse rohen could pop rush making the whole attack useless anyway. Since my order are to only attack if the city can be taken and a size 1 city w/o culture can' be.
Aggie.

	27-08-2002 05:38									#23
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Thanks aggie. That should work great.