27-08-2002 02:29									#1
	End our despotic regime! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

FELLOW CITIZENS:

A new and dangerous time has begun for our great civilization. War wages in all of Abananaba Major and the greatest civ of Abananaba Minor (Rome) lies in chaos and anarchy. These new times call for a new kind of leadership!

The despotic regime that rules from our lowly palace in Apolytonia is higly inefficiant and corrupt. The productivity of our peasants, artisans, and scribes is greaty deminished by the fear they have of our government goons. A new form of government is called for.

Many of our neighbors, including our enemies, have instituted new forms of goverment. A representative type, the Republic, has become the most common form of government, yet our government has yet to enquire about its makeup. The great advantages of this form of gov. can be seen in the huge boom of population that our enemies the Germans, the first republic of all, have seen. BUt the Republic is not the only form of new government out there. While they do not practice it, the Romans, Greeks, and English all lnow of a new form called Monarchy, which i not as good as the Republic, but does provide for better governance than our despotic regime.

Fellow citizens! demand that out government aquire some new form of statecraft, and demand that they make the change, a change that our enlightened and pious population will make quick and painless.

END OUR DESPOTIC REGIME, BEGIN THE REVOLUTION!

Last edited by GePap on 27-08-2002 at 02:35

	27-08-2002 02:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I believe our lands would benefit from a new government but have full confidence that our leadership will implement what is best for Apolytonia using the resources at their disposal.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 27-08-2002 at 03:04

	27-08-2002 02:50									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The AIs are switching to Republic because they get a lot of free support in this difficulty level. If we switch to republic we'll get absolutely no support and actually start losing money every turn because the drop in corruption and the commerce bonus don't offset the upkeep costs. We need to grow significantly (not necessarily in size but rather in population and infrastructure) before switching to Republic can be justified.
Monarchy, however, would be a better choice. True, there's no commerce bonus and corruption is a bit higher but we get two free support per each town and four per city.
IMHO we should switch to Monarchy as soon as possible and switch to republic about 20 or so turns later once our population builds up (with the introduction of money rushing to replace pop rushing our population can finally grow).
Btw, it's worth noting that in this version (1.21f) workers under a Despotism work as fast as workers under Republic and Monarchy.

	27-08-2002 02:56									#4
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I believe our lands would benefit from a new government but have full confidence thaT our leadership will implement what is best for Apolytonia using the resources at their disposal.

One should expect such talk from the ruling elite, factory owners under this regime!

Say No to fear, say yes to change!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

	27-08-2002 02:59									#5
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We have yet to discover a new form of government and no one will sell us either Republic or Monarchy.

--Togas

	27-08-2002 03:00									#6
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Fellow Citizen Gepap,

You may be interested to know that a while ago I did a poll concerning the change of governments. The poll may be found here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59275

The people, it seems, want a monarchy. Only one person wanted to stay a despotism.

	27-08-2002 03:02									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Can we obtain Monarchy in one of those wars we are fighting now, with France, Germany and Persia? I can't recall if one of them have it.

	27-08-2002 03:05									#8
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quote: Originally posted by GePap One should expect such talk from the ruling elite, factory owners under this regime! Say No to fear, say yes to change! VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

Touche, when you get hungry feel free to drop by my estate. I'm sure I can find SOMETHING for you to do................

	27-08-2002 03:12									#9
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Togas We have yet to discover a new form of government and no one will sell us either Republic or Monarchy. --Togas

Well, as Aro suggested, we should make getting a new form of government as part of any settlement a priority.

Also, on buying the techs, how long do we think untl the A.I. decides to sell? and, on a radical note that I would not advise, we could sell ourselves for such a tech, by entering into the Great Greek War, thus merging all the battles into one great big war. Another radical possibility woul be to switch researching feudalism and change over to either Monarchy or Republic, and getting the tech ourselves.

And as for going hungry...... We revolutionary politician never go hungry, and besides, I hold a cushy and middle paying job in government already in the Foreign Ministry. Perhaps I should talk to the tax accessors about the returns of a certain weapons factory...
I wonder what the Ministry of Economy would make with that?

	27-08-2002 03:13									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

As a trader I have visited many of our neighbours (before the war started. Traveling is far to dangerous now). I can tell you from my own experience that the government that they call republic does not make people happy at all (although you might expect differently). On the contrary. In several countries the government had to implement several special measures like hiring entertainers, building colosseums (expensive buildings, I can tell you) etc to avoid people to riot. Apolytonia is not yet ready for such a government. Certainly not with a war going on. Not one war, several wars. In view of this it is probably not even wise to change to whatever government at this time. Changing government will make people insecure and get them off-balance. Although we can proudly say that the people of Apolytonia are very stable and will probably absorb a change like that quickly, it still means losing production that we badly need at these difficult times. Let us hope our current government is able to counter our enemies successfully. This will be a major task. And not necessarily one that, I think, they will be able to finish succesfully. Having several sons at the frontline that is what I worry about a lot these days.

	27-08-2002 03:32									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Aro Can we obtain Monarchy in one of those wars we are fighting now, with France, Germany and Persia? I can't recall if one of them have it.

Neither had it prior to the war.
However I agree that the best way to get Monarchy will be through a peace settlement, if one of the AI civs we're fighting will have it by the time we reach the negotiations table.

	27-08-2002 03:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

*sniff* I'll miss you, pop rush! *sniff*

*hums The Grapes of Wrath*

	27-08-2002 05:36									#13
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Don't worry Epistax. Some day the workers will unite in a form of communal government, then we can order them to their deaths by the million to finish building the factories to make our products of war......

	27-08-2002 05:49									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

hmmm, atleast this revolution thread has merrit to it

	27-08-2002 06:01									#15
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You people haven't bought me Republic or Monarchy yet. You can't propose a revolution until you do.

	27-08-2002 06:04									#16
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then... then...
ANARCHY! things cost less in anarchy!

	27-08-2002 06:40									#17
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Also, on buying the techs, how long do we think untl the A.I. decides to sell? and, on a radical note that I would not advise, we could sell ourselves for such a tech, by entering into the Great Greek War, thus merging all the battles into one great big war.

We can wait a while until we need the tech, at least until we are out of the war. Hopefully we will get it in a peace deal.

quote: Originally posted by GePap Another radical possibility woul be to switch researching feudalism and change over to either Monarchy or Republic, and getting the tech ourselves.

No. I already considered it. I was waiting to get picked up at the park and ride for over an hour today and about 20 minutes of my time was spent deciding whether I should switch. The other 45 was spent thinking what to research after Feudalism.

	27-08-2002 10:23									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

My two cents: if we choose to take sides in the war currently going on between Greece and England and its ally we can get a free tech.
I dunno about Greece but England is offering us one tech for free (either Monarchy, Republic or Monotheism) and another for ~400 gold. I say once we have Feudalism we beef up our defenses with pikemen in the Greek front and then sign an alliance with England.
This might have a negative effect on the outcome of the proposed American campaign but it might be a good idea to ally with England against France, especially because most of Greece's troops will be busy fighting the English and the Aztecs and we have a very easy to defend border with Greece.

	27-08-2002 16:46									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

* MrWhereItsAt takes the podium

I hasten to assure the progressive and free Apolytonian people that our Government (so admirably handled by unOrthO) has been meaning to change the focus of our mighty Empire to one of more development, meaning greater health, literacy and benefits for all! However, with this crisis looming, those selfsame Apolytonians who set out to brave the vast jungle yesteryear are now under threat. We must defeat these outside aggressors before any change in the Government is possible. Would you have your friends sold into slavery, your cousins, your brothers, all those related by Bananaline? Of course not!

When the time is ripe, I will be among the first to champion you in proclaiming the change towards more power for the people, but until we can guarantee safety throughout the realm, we dare not change our focus to the noble pursuit of studying ways to change. All our efforts must lie on defeating the insidious French, the uncouth Germans and the insipid Persians.

I call on all Apolytonians to aid their Governemnt in this struggle, for together we are invincible! Once we have triumphed our inevitable triumph and bestowed the Curse of Fatal Death ( ) on our foes, we shall change.

Until then, my people, my friends, join with me, that we may ride to victory sooner, allowing a change in Government in a peaceful, secure time, when all may reap the benefits!

* MrWhereItsAt leaves the podium, a single tear tricking from the eye

El Presidente
MrWIA

	27-08-2002 20:06									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

pop rush = the sh1t;

oh well, now you'll have to pay more money for my troops i suppose.

(despotism supports 4 from all cities. monarchy supports less. 2 from <6, 4 from 6-12, 6 from 13+ IIRC). we have many <6

	27-08-2002 20:27									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A minor correction: a size 6 settlement is a town, not a city. I've made this mistake once myself. Also, Monarchies give 8 free support to metropolises, not just 6.
To revise: 2 from <7, 4 from 7-12, 8 from 13+.
To put this into an economic context: if we switched to Monarchy now we'd have 30 free support instead of the 60 free support we have now. Since we have 47 units we'd have to pay an additional 17 turns. However, once the war with France is over we'll have lots of new towns and more free support if we decide to switch to Monarchy then (given that we'll have the Monarchy technology by then).