13-09-2000 11:02									#1
	Fast game Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I thinking of a new game if I can invoke following.

Change in map.txt:
Super large map (plus): 96 x 192.

Change in const.txt:
PERCENT_RIVER 15 # percent of land with a river on it
RIVER_LENGTH 30 # average river length
MAP_SIZE_SMALL 24 48 2
MAP_SIZE_MEDIUM 48 96 2
MAP_SIZE_LARGE 64 128 2
MAP_SIZE_GIGANTIC 96 192 2 #value changed from 70 140, gives 18432 tiles instead of 9800.

Change in govern.txt
All values for MIN_EMPIRE_DISTANCE double up (means you can build farther away from your capitol before unhappiness appers).

15 settlers, 15 advances and 15000 gold (then your NOT able to rush buy wonders, you have to "earn" about another 5000).

Max 6 players (else turns take too long time), this number make it possible to make 2-3 alliances - public in the forum or secret by "private" e-mails.

Edit-edit: By the way, I think I have to raise the number of cities in each government type a little.

------------------
Woodstock was here!
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited September 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited September 13, 2000).]

	13-09-2000 15:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

All yours propositions good for me, except MIN_EMPIRE_DISTANCE, because then The Confucus Academy:[wonder] is absolutly no needed, ( and Ranayama partially), but first of all "Capitol distance penatly" feature is very realistic and in my opinion shouldn't be changes... [ after all by less coefficient ] [ I sorry for bad english ]
[This message has been edited by Krzysztof (edited September 13, 2000).]

	13-09-2000 16:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Fast game sounds good. All the rest is greek to me.

hehe. Yeah it sounds like its going to be a good game.

I want in.

Civ - Chinese
Leader - Taipan

	13-09-2000 18:15									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I like the idea of the rivers. Are you sure that you want a map bigger than Gigantic for 5-6 players? Even with gigantic, it can take quite a while to meet each other. Either way it sounds interesting an I'll be in for it. Have you play tested the settings? What is the world like?

Mexicans: DonCarne

	13-09-2000 18:39									#5
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In my opinion gigantic map is enough big... but TheBirdMan think diffrent...

	13-09-2000 18:53									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dont mind a bigger map. If all of us play fast there shouldn't be too big a problem.

The key I think to a fun game regardless of map size is that we should all play the turn within 12 hours of recieving it. Period.

	13-09-2000 22:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My agues (right word?) tomorrow.

My wife thinks this is her computer (though I have paid for it).

Have to do all the hard stuff in the morning.....

	14-09-2000 10:55									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It is difficult to get close enough to your neighbors, if you're not able to settle far away from your capitol. I've played lot of games with these settings against AIs, so I know.

That's the reason why I want min_empire_distance raised, so I can keep citizen happy around 73 in new founded cities on islands and "hostile" coasts.

If not, they starve and city goes out in the blue next turn.

But ok - I can see the problems about the wonders.

Let's make a deal: No changes in min_empire_distance for "old" government types, half for democracy, communism and fasism and double for the rest?!

	14-09-2000 11:38									#9
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I'm interested. The American's. Do we get to pick the 15 advances or is everyone going to get the same or is it that you will pick them.

	14-09-2000 12:06									#10
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I hope it will turn out, that everyone get the same advances. Think that's most fair to everyone.

	14-09-2000 13:04									#11
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I very much like the idea of a fast game and that is what attracted me to this thread. How are you going to make sure that it will be a fast game indeed? Will there be some rules imposed to ensure this. If so, what are the rules?

I do not care about the settings so much although I too think that the normal Gigantic map should do with six players. However, if you feel different, it is OK with me.

Franses

	14-09-2000 13:41									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

TheBirdMan: Your new proposition is copletely satisfactory...

	14-09-2000 17:25									#13
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Each player HAS to take his turn within 24 hours and send a message to the others.

Player 1 send to player 2.

If no message received from player 2 within the time limit, player 1 opens the game and give player 2' civ a "N" for next turn and send the game to player 3. Player 3 have now 24 hours to take his turn.

If no message received from player 3 within the time limit, player 1 opens the game and give player 3' civ a "N" for next turn and send the game to player 4. Player 4 have now 24 hours to take his turn.

And so on?!

	14-09-2000 17:33									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just to get this straight... You want everyone "email" all other players, or is a post in the forum good enough?

	14-09-2000 18:06									#15
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Post on the forum should be good enough. In the case that the forums are down or something of that sortan exception can be made for an extra day or too, or if one of us can not continue for a while, a substitute can be appointed.

*King Thor Salutes TheBirdMan*

You Da man!! ..

Everyone give your preffered times so that The game can be setup to let the players in the morning get the turn first, and the players in the evening get the turn later.. and so on.

I'm US East Coast Time. I can play in the evennings from 6 pm - 12 pm, and on weekends.
[This message has been edited by King Thor (edited September 14, 2000).]

	14-09-2000 20:08									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

These rules sound good. I prefer a mailing to everyone because the forums are quite slow. The mailing does not need to contain more than a subject like "Turn x sent to player y". At the other hand, if someone has good reasons to use the forum. No problem with me.

I agree with arranging the play times. That may be the turbo we want. I am at GMT+1 and prefer to play my turn between GMT 18 - 23 but can often also play between GMT 8 - 18.

Looking forward to playing a fast game,

Franses

	14-09-2000 20:18									#17
	Got spare money?

I prefer GMT 17-20. I also check mail GMT 8-10, but too many turns in the morning, and I can't play them all (otherwise I never get to work!!). Aditionally I check before bed GMT23-3, but expect more than a fair share of stupid drunked decisions, and unprovoked voilent acts Alcohol does have that effect on me (luckily only in Gaming!!!)

	15-09-2000 09:30									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi Folks!

I am interested to join the game. But some questions ... I need to change the settings, right? So, if I play other civ games (AI, MP, other PBEMs), I have to change the settings everytime to adapt them to the current game ...
That sounds a bit like heavy cut 'n paste ...

How do you handle this? I also would like to try some of those MODs from Apolyton. Just to see, how it works and how the effects on the game are. Is there a tool to keep track of the changes and easily change from one setting to an other?

... and, I am always a bit confused about this GMT. Am I GMT-1 or GMT+1 (Germany). I think, when it is 18:00 in Good Ol' England, it is 19:00 in Germany. So it is +1, right?

I would suggest the ICQ for comunicating about making the turns ... (Send to multiple recipients, and ICQ is ALWAYS on (at last at my comp))

Aaginor

	15-09-2000 02:57									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Aaginor,

I suppose you are in GMT+1 like me, but be aware of the summertime which sets me, and I think you also, at GMT+2 untill somewhere in October.

Franses

	15-09-2000 10:54									#20
	Tired of ads?

As far as I know, the only one who may have a problem is the one, that makes the game.

Thereafter, all nessesary settings - included units, advances etc. are in the .csg file - just the same as normal playing with scenarios?!?!?

Until now, I have found only one file - the color00.txt - that are able to make changes to a running game. But on the other hand - I have not searched for any.

Anyone - your comments and expirience to above pls.

	15-09-2000 11:25									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am afraid that if you make any changes in the .txt files, these changes have to be loaded by everyone else in the game (preferably as a scenario). I have had such nasty experiences with this that I stopped doing it.

One of the experiences was that in multiplayer mode we were not able to research advances beyond the first age. This is nasty because you only discover that after you have done quite a number of turns.

I have had discussions with several people about it but none of them knew how to avoid it or even how to test it in an acceptable manner.

To avoid this from happening I would prefer not to make any changes in these files.

Franses

	15-09-2000 22:54									#22
	Tired of ads?

Franses - I just hate you (no - I don't, just hate that you have too much right)!

Until now, I have played a couple of test games up to turn 10 (3 players, 2 "human" and 1 AI). Map.txt: Ok. Const.txt: Ok (as long as settings refers to the map). Government: NO - NO - NO. If/when my new file is in the default folder, everythings ok, replace it with the origin, setting is back to normal. Replace it with my mod, then it is as I wanted it

New replace with origin all back again: Mean game is mostly depending of the files in the default folder. Have tried to make changes in the civpath file - no succes.

Result, game is almost ready. But we will NOT HAVE ANY CHANGES IN THE GOVERN.TXT. I'll just warn you, who want to join my new game: Be very careful about choosing your capitol (right click on a tile beside the suggested settler and choose one in the "middle" of your area - else your in deep s...)!

If you - Franses - have much more right. Then I'm going to "just" join others games or pull myself back in a corner - keeping my arms around my head. But I hope.......

------------------
Woodstock was here!
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited September 15, 2000).]

	16-09-2000 00:36									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Dear Birdie,

Please, don't hate me.

Franses

PS1: If it is any comfort to you, I also spent a lot of time searching for a solution to this problem (and as you know without success). It is a pity because if things like this could be done we could make the game even more fun.

PS2: What do you mean by "click on a selected tile next to the suggested settler"? Do you mean by suggested settler, the point where all the settlers start? Or am I missing something here?

PS3: Good luck with your preparations. I am looking forward to the result.

	16-09-2000 01:34									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My time is GMT -7. I usualy play my turns 10pm to 1am. my time which is Mountian standard time. So I guess that would mean that I take my turns between 5 GMT to 8 GMT. Is that right?

	16-09-2000 09:16									#25
	Put an end to popups!

As I understand it, the problem is, to have always the same modified files in your civ-dir, when you play the game. So, maybe it can work this way:

Keep a copy of the original files in a seperated dir.

Whenever you modify some files for a game, also save them to a separeted dir. When you then play this specific game, just copy the related files into the original (the civ) dir.

You just have to keep track of the files which you need to replace. The simplest thing may be, always copy EVERY file, that may be modified.

Did anybody already tried something like this?

	16-09-2000 10:47									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hey Franses.

During my testgames with many settlers I have noticed the game never choose a settler "in the middle". So if/when you just accept the "proposal" for the first city (your capitol), then several of your other settlers are quite a distance for capitol already when the game starts (great unhappiness if you settle these).

Therefore I deselect the first settler and choose on from the center.

This was just an advise.

To Aaginor:

Yes, that's the way I started - now I have learned how to use scenarios.

It seems like E-mail games uses default directories, therefore your suggestion is the only one, that really works.

But most of us play in more that one game - and personally I don't like copy files to and from before taking my turns.

As I see it we have to keep changes within a few files (DiffDB.txt and script.scl - and now map.txt and maybe const.txt). To keep changes made to the map file, you have to place it in the default dicectory when you make the game - thereafter you can place the original files back.

It will NOT work if you make changes in the scenario folder and load that twice - just as you can with scenarios if all the changes do not show up first time.

------------------
Woodstock was here!

	16-09-2000 20:20									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi Bird Man!

Can you tell me, where I can get some tips to use scenarios? Isn't it possible, to play a scenario as PBEM?

To the rest:

What about the game now? I am eager to start!

Aaginor

	17-09-2000 03:57									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Aaginor,

Even when you take your approach I am not sure that you won't get the problem I mentioned before and I prefer not to find this out only at turn x.

I also fully agree with Birdman regarding playing more than one PBEM. Even more so because I play my PBEM games from different computers.

Birdman,

Thanks for your explanation. The games I started sofar with many settlers always started with all the settlers in the same tile. I understand you did not?

Franses

	17-09-2000 11:10									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, I'm using these lines in the scipt.slc:

messagebox 'MakeSettlersMessage' {
Abort();
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,0);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,1);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,2);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,3);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,4);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,5);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,6);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,7);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,8);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,9);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,10);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,11);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,12);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,13);
CreateUnit(player,UnitType("UNIT_SETTLER"),unit.1.location,14);
KillUnit(unit.1);
GrantAdvance(player,Agriculture);
GrantAdvance(player,Toolmaking);
GrantAdvance(player,Mining);
GrantAdvance(player,Domestication);
GrantAdvance(player,Bronze_Working);
GrantAdvance(player,Stone_Working);
GrantAdvance(player,Writing);
GrantAdvance(player,Religion);
GrantAdvance(player,Geometry);
GrantAdvance(player,Trade);
GrantAdvance(player,Jurisprudence);
GrantAdvance(player,Ship_building);
GrantAdvance(player,Philosophy);
GrantAdvance(player,Bureaucracy);
GrantAdvance(player,Astronomy);
}

These different starting locations gives you a big area, that you can call your homeland from the start. This also accellerate the game.

	17-09-2000 13:10									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Game will soon start. 24 hours turn rule. Either e-mail to everyone or post on the forum. Prefer no AI to be used, either "next" or find substitute.

Players:

TheBirdMan - Russian - Ivan - thebirdman@lyngbes.dk or max.reiff@get2net.dk, 05:30-08:00 + 16:00 - 18:00 GMT, sometimes more.
Arthur, ?, ?, Arthur@cc.usu.edu, 5:00-8:00 GMT
Stavros, mexican, DonCarne, steve.auch@myokay.net, 17:00-20:00 GMT sometime 08:00-10:00 GMT.
Krzysztof, normally assyrian + Creator, krzysiekc@systembureau.com, ?
Franses, ?, ?, ?, 18:00-23:00 GMT, sometimes more.
Aaginor, ?, ?, aaginor@t-online.de, 18:00-24:00 GMT
Thor, chinese, Taipan, mustansir@telocity.com, 23:00-05:00 GMT

15 settlers (be careful, remember penalty of empire_size and capitol distance).

15 advances: Agriculture, Toolmaking, Mining, Domestication, Bronze_Working, Stone_Working, Writing, Religion, Geometry, Trade, Jurisprudence, Ship_building, Philosophy, Bureaucracy, Astronomy

15.000 gold.

Other settings:

Map, going from 0 (zero) to 10 (ten)

6 (dry)
4 (warm)
5 (ocean/land)
9 (continent)
10 (diverse)
5 (Goods)

Size: Supergigantic.

Diff: Deity with roving bands.

Shape: Doughnut World

PERCENT_RIVER 25 # percent of land with a river on it
RIVER_LENGTH 35 # average river length

Game will start as soon as I have missing details.

Suggestion for name of starting tread?
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited September 17, 2000).]