28-08-2002 19:28									#1
	I need a new civ! Increase the size of your Attachments

I am working on a scenario; humongous “real” world map with all cities in their proper place. The year is 1930 AD, city populations have been set to the 1930 census, techs and improvements have been set to the appropriate levels and all major units are in place. The players are: America, Brazil (Inca,) England (should I rename to the UK?), France (my kingdom for a De Gaulle leaderhead,) Germany, Russia, Italy (Rome,) Greece, Egypt, Ethiopia (Zulu,) Iraq (Babs,) Iran (Persia,) China and Japan.

I need at least one more civ. I have been toying with the idea of either Australia or The Netherlands (mostly due to empty map space) but I am at a loss as to what the appropriate leaders (preferably era specific), civ attributes and UU (if any due to the timeline) would be.

Due to the time required to make a 50,000+ square era accurate map of earth I am forced to limit my research time and I hope this forum will prove to be an effective research tool. I could also use a Brazilian leadername. Any other comments, tips, ideas, etc in regard to this type of scenario would also be welcomed.

Thanks in advance!

	31-08-2002 04:48									#2
	Got spare money?

Would a screenshot help? Should I think about using the "Union of South Africa"? (or would that be too PI)

Attachment: almostdone.jpg
This has been downloaded 137 time(s).

	31-08-2002 05:40									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Any Polynesian culture might suffice, specifically the Maori people of New Zealand.

	31-08-2002 07:15									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In 1930?

	31-08-2002 12:16									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well..considering they were horribly victimized by the colonists that came to Australia and New Zealand just like the Native Americans here in the States, they are trying to improve their lot...and I read elsewhere in the forum someone who was doing something similar, but didn't want to add another western european-influenced culture like New Zealand or Australia. But if you want to limit yourself to just Australia or the Netherlands...go with Australia and fill that part of the map. My eye didn't catch the 1930 part of your post the first time I read it...blind as a bat w/o my glasses, still a little blurry if they're not sitting on my nose JUST right.

	01-09-2002 05:07									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Indonesia? Some Pacific Islander or SouthEastern Oriental Civ would be most appropriate. That way Japan has someone to Imperialize before WW2.
(just trying to be historical)

Although the Aussies should work.

	01-09-2002 06:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This looks great! I am looking forward to playing it. Australia would be a nice addition. If you want to add Australia you could start at: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...light=Australia

	02-09-2002 02:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by: GhengisFarb Indonesia? Some Pacific Islander or SouthEastern Oriental Civ would be most appropriate. That way Japan has someone to Imperialize before WW2.

Unfortunately they were all colonies of European states. Indonesia was Dutch, the English and French pretty much had the rest of the islands occupied so the Aussies are probably going to be the add-on. Do you think I can get away with using (Little) Hiawatha as the leaderhead?

	02-09-2002 06:05									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This Scenario seems like it could be tons of fun, especially if settlers were very expensive (to tone down people like the Brazilians from colonizing like mad).

good work.

	02-09-2002 17:55									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: especially if settlers were very expensive

Interesting that you should comment on that. The settler unit for this mod costs 120 shields and 5 pop. It has a defensive value so it won’t spawn a pile of workers when it is overrun. Three of the civs; Iran, Iraq and Ethiopia, are not allowed to build them at all as they were intended only to fill a hole in the map and be a target of conquest. The AI has proven time and again its’ inability to use differing strategies so the unit also has great movement ability to get you to that strategic spot before your rival.

	03-09-2002 02:25									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

you could add the netherlands and let them have a forbidden palace in indonesia.

	03-09-2002 02:27									#12
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Should I think about using the "Union of South Africa"? (or would that be too PI)

also a good idea. remember that they controlled South-West Africa (Namibia) as well.

and what's PI

	03-09-2002 03:49									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: what's PI

It means politically incorrect, as opposed to politically correct, referring to the fact Hitler is the leader of the German civ, meaning; with one racist “pos” in the game would it not be too much to bring in another? It has the potential to be as offensive to some as making Canada part of the US or New Zealand part of Australia.

As for the Dutch, the main problem I have with adding them is the fact that given the constraints of such a “small” map, they would only have one city (the capitol) on the European continent, the rest of the civ would be in what is now Malaya, Indonesia and New Guinea. That one city is sure to be conquered early, leaving the Dutch (a European civ) completely in Asia. But hypothetically, were I to add the Netherlands, who would be the best choice for leader, 20th century UU, etc.

Now don’t get me wrong, I have not ruled out the possibility of using them, but there are many unanswered issues; for example the size of Europe (on the map) compared to the 1930 population, city population, empire size, etc. that could detrimentally affect the way this mod plays out. Look at the map: I would have to remove a French city (civ population is already way off, unless I should alter city sizes until they reflect the full population of the civ, it would make for an average city size of 25) to add one Dutch city with a population 12 (780,000.) So please, give me a good argument for adding them, (I would really like to) but unfortunately, given the parameters of the simulation and the cold hard facts of reality (the map requires no fluff in Europe) it seems impractical.

At least now I know why I’ve started to call this mod “my obsession.”

	03-09-2002 03:52									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Sorry, the attachment didn't attach...

Attachment: europe.jpg
This has been downloaded 89 time(s).

	03-09-2002 21:05									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok I see what you mean, but I don't agree. The Union of South Africa existed, racist or not, it's part of history.
As opposed to this

quote: It has the potential to be as offensive to some as making Canada part of the US or New Zealand part of Australia

which never happened.

	03-09-2002 21:09									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: they would only have one city (the capitol) on the European continent, the rest of the civ would be in what is now Malaya, Indonesia and New Guinea.

+Surinam and Netherlands Antilles.

	03-09-2002 21:13									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

have you thought about letting the british have Australia and Canada (Commonwealth)? At least Canada would prevent the Americans from settling all of North America. I guess Australia would be extremely corrupt though, unless you place a Forbidden Palace there

	04-09-2002 04:00									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Ok I see what you mean, but I don't agree. The Union of South Africa existed, racist or not, it's part of history.

You're right what I meant to say was: It has the potential to be as offensive to some as making Canada part of the US or New Zealand part of Australia would be to others. Also please understand, I have seen people get banned from a discussion thread I created - I would prefer not to repeat this "anomaly."

quote: +Surinam and Netherlands Antilles

Sorry, but I only see a hopelessly weak civ that cannot defend itself (globally) and has nothing for another civ (Human or AI) to negotiate for or with; perhaps if I expanded it to be a Benelux "and" Scandinavian civ, but I really don't think that would work, conceptually or historically.

	04-09-2002 04:43									#19
	Got spare money?

quote: have you thought about letting the british have Australia and Canada (Commonwealth)? At least Canada would prevent the Americans from settling all of North America. I guess Australia would be extremely corrupt though, unless you place a Forbidden Palace there

I considered it; however, it would make the "Commonwealth" an almost undefeatable civ (due mostly to game mechanics) that would not make for a good scenario - what would be the point of playing?

Also, being as it is a scenario I should mention that the first incarnation would be with the human playing the Americans, who in 1930 were haplessly oblivious to the goings on in the rest of the world - hence the need for isolation.

I will be adding the Australians; I am going to try to have it done by the weekend. Unfortunately the file size is quite large. about 45 minutes on a good dial-up connection. (Could it be because of the 7 units, Stalin, Hitler, Churchill, Mussolini (by ccm01,) Eisenhower, Vargas and possibly Nasser leaderheads (by sween32,) and Harlan's resources in addition to the bic and possibly a sav file? )

	04-09-2002 05:32									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think you should add Canada and Australia to the British, but make it some small cities, and the corruption will do the rest. the cities will be almost useless, but they will take up space, and Britain could turn into a superpower if you develope thouse cities, which is historical.

	04-09-2002 14:07									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You could make a group (or several groups) of neutrals, ala Civ 2 WWII scenario. This could countries from around different parts of the world, or in the same area of the world.

	05-09-2002 05:35									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks to you all for the advice and support, I'm going to call it "finished for now." As soon as it (the game) builds the scenario I will make the save file, package it up and send it on it's way to the server. I will be starting a new thread for it in the morning.