29-08-2002 13:12									#1
	Wonder building in Candle'Bre Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Morning,

Was having a think on CB related stuff on the way to work this morning and it occured to me that we have a big list of Wonders to include, if and when this part of the game gets implemented.

What we don't yet have is a reasonable way of building them. At the moment Province improvements take X turns to build. All fine and good, but using this for Wonder construction simply means that whoever starts first will automatically finish first. Which isn't much fun. I'm not a great fan of either Civ method of Wonder racing - the Great Leader method or the Rush buying method and I'm not convinced that either would fit well into a Candle'Bre framework anyway.

So I thought the following system might work.

Minor Wonders

Each Wonder has three things that affect how quickly you can build them and to a certain extent they're all arbitrary.

- Time. This is the base time in turns that it takes to build the wonder.

- Cash. By diverting funds on a per turn basis, you can speed construction of your Wonder. Each Wonder has a maximum amount of gold per turn that can be allocated to it, leading to a maximum of a 30% reduction in time taken to build the Wonder. There should definitely be a diminishing returns relationship between cash allocated and time reduction, and not all Wonders can have sufficient cash per turn allocated to them to effect the full 30% reduction.

- Labour. Essentially the same effects as Cash

So the maximum time reduction on a Wonder is 60%, assuming that you are allowed to and can afford to throw the maximum amount of cash and labour at it. I was thinking though that for example a Magic based Wonder, would be far more dependent on cash to build (buying up small amounts of expensive raw materials), whereas the Rockface Citadel would be far more dependant on labour (stone is relatively cheap but it requires transporting, dressing and putting into place). Therefore the Magic based Wonder could be allowed to have the full 30% build time reduction due to Cash allocation but say a maximum of a 10% build time reduction due to Labour allocation. The converse would be true for the Rockface Citadel.

Major Wonders

The build time reduction model works in the same way as for the Minor Wonders. What is different is the way the base time is calculated. Whereas the Minor Wonders represent a very impressive or large scale application of existing technology and craftsmanship, a Major Wonder is right on the cutting edge of what can be done, typically requiring entirely new skills, technologies and methodologies to construct.

To reflect this a Major Wonder would require a certain number of Research points to build. Again these can only be allocated on a per turn basis - no 'Research stockpiling', up to a maximum number of points per turn The base time for a Major Wonder is then calculated by taking the raw build time (which should be pretty long) and dividing by the number of Research points per turn that are allocated. O points per turn therefore equals infinite time.

I think this works quite well with the notion of Tech tree linked wonders and Tech tree specific Research points. A Military Great Wonder for example would draw its Research points per turn from the Military research points generated by a Faction.

As a bonus, after the Major Wonder is completed, the building faction could receive a bonus to research point generation (in the Tech tree linked to the Wonder) for the next 20 turns. This reflects the gradual dissertation of the advanced techniques developed to build the Wonder into everyday practice.

Hope this made some sense!

thoughts??

Rich.

	29-08-2002 20:22									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I've actually wanted the tech thing for Civ wonders, too. I think that it's ridiculous that it takes SHIELDS to build the Manhatten Project - it should take money and research.

	30-08-2002 00:13									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Gosh, it's rediclous shields represent productivity to begin with. Complaining about further rediculousness seems redundant

As for the topic, I do like the idea. One of the things I really liked in the original Civ was the spaceship rush - and how you could cut corners if you wanted to take the risk... perhaps you could "lauch" wonders that aren't built, taking a chance the whole thing will just collapes in your face? That'd be fun.

	30-08-2002 03:40									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by skywalker I think that it's ridiculous that it takes SHIELDS to build the Manhatten Project - it should take money and research.

Shields represend the combined output of industry, manual labor capability, and power. Increasing your shields does cost money, in the form of choosing shield-high squares over trade-rich squares and paying for industry improvements. Plus, it took research points to reach the tech for the manhattan project. So... it already does take money and science.

As for the ideas presented here, most of this I will leave to the core rules guys... but I would like to comment that the current wonder system requires technologies already, which IMO makes the requirement of "extra" research points redundant. If you want it to require more research points, than increase the amount req for the tech.