30-08-2002 01:54									#1
	china leader Got spare money?

i think china's leader yao ming should be changed its like germany's leader being hitler

	30-08-2002 02:46									#2
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i agree. who should it be instead? probably emperor whatshisname

	30-08-2002 02:51									#3
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emperor ming? as in the ming dynasty? i have no idea if that's a good suggestion though, my knowlege of ancient china is a bit rusty to say the least

	30-08-2002 04:31									#4
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what are you talking about

	30-08-2002 06:21									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yao ming is the recent NBA player from China.

	30-08-2002 06:25									#6
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lol guess i got my leaders messed up

	30-08-2002 09:55									#7
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Uh....um......I like it being Mao. I get to kill evil chinese maoists

	30-08-2002 09:58									#8
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I second that Tassadar.

	30-08-2002 10:01									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Uh....um......I like it being Mao. I get to kill evil chinese maoists

Shouldn't the leader for Russia be Lenin or Stalin then?

I think they were much cooler than that German nymphomaniac.

	30-08-2002 18:42									#10
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Hmm, Stalin for the Russians might be as offensive to the Russians as Reagan would be to the Americans. (Uh, never mind, the Republicans seem to be in a rush to name everything in Washington D.C. after Reagan). Yes, adding Reagan and Lenin, not a bad idea . . .

Maybe there should be an option to play with great or evil leaders.

	30-08-2002 19:05									#11
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Is it hard to change the names and graphics of leaders?

If anyone would mod the game to put Clinton as the american leader they could also make the advisors provide an endless stream of cigar references

	30-08-2002 22:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Hmm, Stalin for the Russians might be as offensive to the Russians as Reagan would be to the Americans. (Uh, never mind, the Republicans seem to be in a rush to name everything in Washington D.C. after Reagan). Yes, adding Reagan and Lenin, not a bad idea . . .

I have to remind you that the great majority(2/3) of Americans love Reagan; it is just that foreigners, especially Euros, hate him. A huge group of Americans used to be "Reagan Democrats".

	31-08-2002 09:02									#13
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The thing about Stalin is that well, he killed more of HIS OWN PEOPLE than Hitler, by far. hitler more or less wiped out the Jews of Europe, woop-de-doo compared to what Stalin did.

	31-08-2002 10:31									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Uh....um......I like it being Mao. I get to kill evil chinese maoists

I like playing Mao. I get to kill evil British and American imperialists trying to expand into my country.

	31-08-2002 12:36									#15
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I think it is an insult to people who actually lived through the Cultural revolution, depite being labeled as counter-revolutionaries, being able to conquer the world as a truly man who kills his own people is just darn wrong, having the option of using Mao to spread humanity to Alpha Centuari is disgusitng.

Mao killed more people then Hitler and Stalin combined, the only reason that Firaxis does not give is that because IMHO a lot of Americans who maybe dio not learn about othe countries (and I am not anti-American just very concerned) dont know much about The Chienese Communists and Cultural Revolutions, they were both horrible periodes in the Chinese Peoples History.

He was just as twisted as Stalin, maybe more so, just because we are on the other side of the Pacific does not mean we should act like he is "Just anouther chinese guy".

I dont mean to rant, and I am not Chinese, but I do get annoyed when companies like firaxis seem to be oblivious to things like this, its like trying to Justfy putting Hitler in the game cause he "only killed six million, that less then Stalin, and beside he lost the war"

this just shows that the world still ha snot learnt enough about the true Mao.

I would highly recemond everyone to read "Wild Swans" as it is a true and scary story.

	31-08-2002 12:39									#16
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sorry about that rant, there, did not mean to sound like a KMT member, never mean to insult anyone either, sorry, butI have recently lost a game ot Mao when he build a space ship and it really ticked me off.

	31-08-2002 19:24									#17
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yeah but you were right

	02-09-2002 18:06									#18
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Well, for one thing, Chinese do not like Mao. China was de-Maoized the same way Russia was de-stalinized when they got rid of Stalin. Mao was responsible for something called "cult to personality" which is trying to impose his figure as if he was some kind of patriarch or messiah or something, something like what Nero did but without the exagerated theatrical excentricity of Nero. The only good thing Mao did for china was save and protect it's sovereignty from the Russians, English, Portogese, Arabs, etc. But I dont think the Chinese really feel that that was a thing he did "for his people".

Most western world people seem to be so ignorant about this that not long ago some stupid idiot clown who happens to be president of a southamerican country went to China and said "Yo amo a Mao", which translates to "I love mao" in reference to some propaganda of the Maoist era where the phrase "Mao loves the people, the people love Mao" comes from. I think it's from the Red book, not sure, I'll give the book a read if I can find it and download it. The thing is that after that, the idiot didn't really fit very good with the Chinese which practicly resulted on no agreements of any kind being arranged, and I wholeheartedly wish the chinese would have lynched the ignorant petulant idiot as I would have. Oh well, international conventions tend to protect the worst specimens of our specie.

We could just take Sun Tzu's era's king or some king that somehow unified China. Options of rulers start from Xuang Dee (I think it was, I cant remember exactly) and then I think we have a long line of kings from the Chin, Shang and I cant remember what other dinasties.

Otto von Bismarck wasnt a "respectable subject" either, maybe the Germans dont mind, but his biography is definately not that of an "admirable" person. In Otto's case I believe it comes to be more insult to the French and not much importance to the Germans. I guess it comes to show that world's history has been crudely shaped by bureaucratized criminals one time after another.

Going a bit further off the topic, I think Gengis should be Khan Genghis Temujin of the Mongols and not King Gengis Temujin Khan of the Mongols, I could be wrong, but someone should check it out as I believe "Khan" was some sort of emperor title and not his name.

Last edited by XOR on 02-09-2002 at 18:28

	02-09-2002 18:43									#19
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XOR: I think you are right about 'khan' - just their word for emperor or king. I read somewhere that they had a supreme king called kha-khan. As this title was taken already Temujin had to make a new title - Gengis Khan - Khan of the sky. I think Gengis is their name for the sky, which also was considered a deity.

I'm no historian though, just a humble engineer.

	03-09-2002 03:43									#20
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Well, you can do the following things in the game:
- Raze enemy cities at will;
- Pop-rush improvements and units whenever convenient;
- Start all-out nuclear war;
- Starve a size 30 city all the way down to 1 without repercussions.

Does that make you any better than Mao, Stalin, or Hitler, if not worse?