31-08-2002 02:34									#1
	Two leaders Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sorry to polluate this forum with something that is certainly obvious to most of you here, but I need to know: is it possible to have two leaders at the same time ?
In other words if I keep a leader for a "wonder rescue plan", does it prevent me from getting another one in combat ?

Thanks.

	31-08-2002 02:39									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Nope, just one at a time (sorry).

	31-08-2002 02:40									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No, you can only have one Great Leader at a time. I didn't know that myself until I read about it here. I guess they figured being able to save up a bunch of Leaders would give a player too much of an advantage.

	31-08-2002 03:41									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks for the quick answer.

BTW that means that keeping a GL for wonder emmergencies is not necessarily a good idea.

Another question about GL: I wonder if units loaded in an army can create GL just as independant units.

	31-08-2002 04:05									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Altough it is possible to get two (or more!) leaders in the same turn, if you burn the first one. I once got two leaders in a row, elite combat -> leader generated, immediately burnt on FP, the next unit at the city activates and I attack and generate a second GL.

	31-08-2002 04:08									#6
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Max Thanks for the quick answer. BTW that means that keeping a GL for wonder emmergencies is not necessarily a good idea. Another question about GL: I wonder if units loaded in an army can create GL just as independant units.

I believe that they can, they still advance from veteran to elite.

Anyone know for sure?

	31-08-2002 04:17									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

No leaders from units in an army, and no leaders from fighting barbarians.

Catt

	31-08-2002 06:10									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Catt No leaders from units in an army, and no leaders from fighting barbarians. Catt

I knew about the barbarians, wasn't sure about armies. I rarely seem to get GLs anyway.

	31-08-2002 16:43									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And if your Elite has created a GL,
it will NOT be able to do so again until you upgrade it.
(if possible)

	31-08-2002 20:02									#10
	Remove this text

This is from a response to a post at CivFanatics by etj4Eagle about Great Leaders.


Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each unit can produce at most one great leader. Each time a unit is upgraded, however, it can once again produce a great leader. You can have more than one great leader per game but only one at a time.

Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

Add On (Edited In):

Originally posted by Loopy

This would also imply that armies (since units within can be promoted) could in theory spawn as many leaders as they have units. The limit of 1 per makes total sense given the exploit Killer identified. Preventing unloading and reloading units from armies makes sense too.

I don't know how useful knowing the actual mechanism would be to know if I'm right. Care to comment Beer?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Units in armies cannot spawn leaders because an army is already led by the leader that created it. Also, leaders cannot be spawned from combat with barbarians (this was not changed in a patch -- it has always worked this way).

Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

EDIT

Additional info:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sumthinelse


Mike, welcome back.

I am not sure exactly what this statement means, though. Does it mean:

1) That when an army wins a victory a leader can never be created as a result of such combat?

2) That when an army wins a victory it can create one leader but only one, even though the army can have more than one unit in it? I suppose that the army would have to be ''elite'' but I don't think I have ever seen an elite army, although I have seen armies with elite units in them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It means:
1) when an army wins a victory a leader can never be created as a result of such combat.
_____
Mike

Originally posted by sumthinelse

Mike B., is it possible for an army (not the units in it) to be promoted to elite? Never saw one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Armies are never promoted and do not really have an experience level. (I believe they will be stored internally as either Regualr or Veteran but it is never used for armies).


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike B., does it look like the odds 1/12 and 1/16 are applied under the correct conditions (before/after Heroic Epic) for generating a leader?
----

Odds with Heroic Epic = 1/12
Odds without Heroic Epic = 1/16
The odds are halved for defenders (1/24 and 1/32).

Mike

Originally posted by IDSmoker
Can units with the 'blitz' attribute (the ability to attack more than once per turn) create GLs on any attack other than their first?
----

Yes.

quote:
----
Can a blitz unit that gets promoted on it's first attack, create a GL on it's subsequent attacks?
----

Yes.

quote:
----
Originall posted by PaleHorse76
Hopefully Firaxis will make the ELITE units visually different someday.
----

I'm experimenting with giving the player the option of renaming units that generate a leader.

Mike

quote:
----
Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
When you right click on a square why can't all the units in the list that produced Great Leaders just have a star (*) beside them? No renaming and if you upgrade the unit the star disappears cause it's eligible to produce a GL again.

CB
----
Good idea!

Mike

quote:
----
Originally posted by sumthinelse
Is it possible that we could get some solution like the * in a patch before PTW comes out? Note, I said possible, not a promise.
----

Both this and the option to rename units that spawn a leader will probably be included in the editor update (though I can't make any guarantees...).
_____
Mike

They were added in the 1.29f patch

Zigeuner, our very own Zig, has found out that Artillery with Lethal Bombardment turned on CAN create a Great Leader, way to go Zig.
Originally posted by Loopy

This would also imply that armies (since units within can be promoted) could in theory spawn as many leaders as they have units. The limit of 1 per makes total sense given the exploit Killer identified. Preventing unloading and reloading units from armies makes sense too.

I don't know how useful knowing the actual mechanism would be to know if I'm right. Care to comment Beer?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Units in armies cannot spawn leaders because an army is already led by the leader that created it. Also, leaders cannot be spawned from combat with barbarians (this was not changed in a patch -- it has always worked this way).

Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

EDIT

Additional info:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sumthinelse


Mike, welcome back.

I am not sure exactly what this statement means, though. Does it mean:

1) That when an army wins a victory a leader can never be created as a result of such combat?

2) That when an army wins a victory it can create one leader but only one, even though the army can have more than one unit in it? I suppose that the army would have to be ''elite'' but I don't think I have ever seen an elite army, although I have seen armies with elite units in them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It means:
1) when an army wins a victory a leader can never be created as a result of such combat.


__________________
Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

New info:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sumthinelse

Mike B., is it possible for an army (not the units in it) to be promoted to elite? Never saw one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Armies are never promoted and do not really have an experience level. (I believe they will be stored internally as either Regualr or Veteran but it is never used for armies).


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike B., does it look like the odds 1/12 and 1/16 are applied under the correct conditions (before/after Heroic Epic) for generating a leader?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Odds with Heroic Epic = 1/12
Odds without Heroic Epic = 1/16
The odds are halved for defenders (1/24 and 1/32).


Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

Originally posted by IDSmoker
Can units with the 'blitz' attribute (the ability to attack more than once per turn) create GLs on any attack other than their first?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can a blitz unit that gets promoted on it's first attack, create a GL on it's subsequent attacks?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originall posted by PaleHorse76
Hopefully Firaxis will make the ELITE units visually different someday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm experimenting with giving the player the option of renaming units that generate a leader.

Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

NB: This last was put in the 1.29f patch

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
When you right click on a square why can't all the units in the list that produced Great Leaders just have a star (*) beside them? No renaming and if you upgrade the unit the star disappears cause it's eligible to produce a GL again.

CB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Good idea!

Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sumthinelse
Is it possible that we could get some solution like the * in a patch before PTW comes out? Note, I said possible, not a promise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Both this and the option to rename units that spawn a leader will probably be included in the editor update (though I can't make any guarantees...).


__________________
Mike Breitkreutz
Programmer
FIRAXIS Games

Sorry if I copied something more than once in this post; I was copy/pasting from several posts in one thread.

Here is the link to the beginning thread post:

Great Leader Post at CivFanatics

	31-08-2002 21:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Max Thanks for the quick answer. BTW that means that keeping a GL for wonder emmergencies is not necessarily a good idea.

Yes and no. Yes it is a bad idea if you are cranking out lots of leaders and the wonders is more than a few turns away. No if you are only getting about 5 leaders a game, then hold it. I had 4 leaders in one turn, 3 on offense and one on defense (got killed . ). I was making leaders so fast, I would use them for something as soon as they were created, IF I had more elites to fight that round that could make another leader and no wonders was coming up the next turn