31-08-2002 05:59									#1
	Game becomes tedius, boring and unfun by late middle ages? Anyone notice this? Tired of ads?

I'm not trying to start a flame war but I honestly started notice this dilema. Anyone else notice this? Game is most fun starting out and ancient era..by the middle-middle ages to late middle ages and beyond..it becomes downright boring..especially once you think the game is in hand. I usually quit by then out of frustration.

Wow large map almost killed me..I can't imagine playing to the industrial-modern age on a huge or giga map. How can that be fun??

Do small maps make it better? I was afriad small maps would be way too easy and you would take everyone over so quick. I played Emperor level standard and large and notice by the time i get to the late medieval times the game becomes unbearable. I play on a 733mhz pentium 256 mb ram.

Way too many units. It seems the game is real fun at the beginning but becomes increasingly more tedius and downright boring and unfun at about the time you start to research past education on the tech tree...the tedium really starts to kick in. It's almost depressing!

Does anyone have this dilema too? Any ideas? Other than quit playing?

	31-08-2002 06:29									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

When I started playing around Christmas, I could not stand the late game, and I made a conscious choice not to bother beyond around Military Tradition, when I had usually achieved what I called "overwhelming momentum."

I was OK with that, and still had lots of fun.

As patches came out, I played more to the end of the game... also a lot of fun, as I was learning new stuff, and was also putting myself in untenable positions (HUGE stacks of MI, and even Tanks back then, which was rare, invading my territory).

I've felt a bit like you do for a while... I'm back to achieving "overwhelming momentum," and the end game is just mop up, so I don;t necessarily finish. That's why Vel, for instance, got all fired up about Alamo, in creating an exciting late game (btw, try it... it's long and hard, but it sure ain;t tedious. At the very least, watch the opening move... it's effing WW3!!).

This is also why I've been searching for ways to create killer AI civs.

Keep watching... same Bat-time, same Bat-channel... I think between the PTW improvements, and things we're all learning about how to configure the game, "late-game balance" is coming.

For instance, in my playing of Banana Isle, Rome has become a killer AI civ. I'm at Tanks now, and creating my 'platform' for an eventual inter-island attack on them... having a blast!

Use this time to polish your game up through the Industrial Age. I'm still surprised by how many subtleties I keep finding (here at 'poly), and how much I enjoy integrating them into my thinking and strats.

Recent and not-so-recent examples:

* The Arrian Deception (destroy all civs on your landmass before the rest of the world finds out what a psycho you are).

* Also from Arrian, early buying of slave workers, but using them to grow your towns after Settler building... incredibly powerful, twice over.

* FP placement and Palace bouncing... Catt opened my eyes on this within, what, the last couple weeks? (And I just did one tonight!)

* Ongoing thoughts and examples from Vel, Aeson, and Zachriel... study the screenshots!

* Newer thinkers... Lord Merciless comes to mind, the guy should be a frigging general or S3 (right designation? Strategy?). Our new Russian friend as well.

Anyway, my philosophy is play the parts that you enjoy. Sometimes, for me, it's just early war, sometimes it's building and culture, sometimes trade, sometimes Machiavelli, and sometimes a late-game, devastating, WW3-level intercontinental slugfest.

Try the next AU game... sharing experiences, and mutual learning, adds another dimension.

	31-08-2002 07:38									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with Theseus on all points.

I actually found out about palace bouncing on my own. Before I started read the Strategy section.

I've been playing since January( took time of in June, July and August) and started playing again.

I'm barely playing regent level games now.

However, if you find the late game tedious, try for early victories, where you find the fun in the game. Nobody says you have to go through all the eras.

	31-08-2002 11:21									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It seems to me that there's less city improvements to build from the industrial age on (eg gone from CivII are stock exchanges, supermarkets, mass transit, to mention some, and manufacturing plants come really late in the game). So if you're going through a peaceful stage, or are trying for space ship victory, for long periods all your main cities are just building military units which you don't even need. So I'd like to see more city improvement options, to make it a bit more interesting.

Also, I think that now that the CivII spy and caravan/freight units are gone, it's diminished the game a bit too. In CivII I used to send my spies all over the place just exploring cities (and doing the occasional damage) but espionage is too expensive now. And often in CivII I'd get fun from trying to get the maximum number of trade routes for all my cities - this always added a bit more interest to a game where the end result was a foregone conclusion.

	31-08-2002 12:23									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

the game gets "pointless" around the early industrial age because thats when everyone gets calvary, and the MPPs flare up and start world wars. The end result is usually me and 2 AI world powers, and when i start taking one out, i realize i definately won the game and it's just be 100 turns of building and clicking.

not worth it.

maybe with humans.

maybe.

	31-08-2002 12:50									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes once you get cavalry, game over. Then it's a meaningless point and click fest. They shouldn't even have an industrial and modern age or they should shorten things down and make the ages shorter so instead of cavalry = game over, it should be modern armor= game over.

Time to toy with a new mod.

	31-08-2002 23:43									#7
	Remove this text

If there is to be such a thing, I think the Apolyton Standard Mod should focus on units and improvements in the Industrial and Modern Eras. Oh, and the tech trees there as well. That is where the game gets a bit draggy for everyone.

	01-09-2002 00:00									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmm.

I think I enjoy the late Industrial and the whole Modern Age. Nothing's as fun as making 100 battleships and 1000 Tanks to Zerg all over the enemy.

Anyone who played StarCraft will know exactly what I mean.


A good suggestion is to either disable Cavalary, not build any cavalary, or change the Editor rules for science so that you can get a tech every turn if your science is super high like in Civ 1, 2, and SMAC - SMAC-X.

That way you can zip past the boring early Industrial Ages, and focus on the fun units later on.


I usually make my cities build Infantry or Riflemen when no more improvements, so I can have 10 - 12 infantry defending EACH city. Then later on, change to Wealth, so I can upgrade ALL my units to Modern Armor, Radar Artillery, and Mech Infantry.

The AI can't take over my cities easily unless nukes or 10's of bombers or battleships, but then again, I haven't seen the AI that tough yet.


Lets hope the AI gets even better in the PTW, or you guys find a way to make awesome "human" AI's.