31-08-2002 06:36									#1
	Techwhore Plan Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have been doing some thinking and debating. Here is plan I have come up with that could get us 4 techs.
1) Make peace with france
2) Buy feudalism from france for about 371 + 10 GPT
3) Turn around sell to Rome for money and monarchy
4) Turn around sell to russia for money and republic
Remember we are selling an new tech for old tech
5) THE GREAT PART
Sell one or both of these to France and get our case back and maybe sell to others to make more.
Total cost is 571(371 + 20*10)
Income is at least probably 300
Net cost is 271
That is 90 G per tech. That is probably on low side.

6) In addtion to the above i've notice that the Aztects & Babylonians don't have fuedalism. Perhaps we could trade it for monotheism and that would give us 4 TECHS. The babylonians don't have either rep or monarchy(I forget which) AND Feudalism.

That is 90 G per tech. That is probably on low side. Maybe we can sell to some nations that only have monarchy or republic the other for GPT
We need to do this soon because rome has money and they could buy from france any moment. If they do Russia gets it through GL and whole deal is off.
Repectfully submitted
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 31-08-2002 at 08:28

	31-08-2002 06:44									#2
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10 LPT!!
That's a high price to pay and until we do declare peace, that number is variable. BTW, how did you get that figure?

	31-08-2002 06:45									#3
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I'll wait until one or two more people have responded and pointed out any downsides before throwing out what I think...

I do have one question, however -- besides your belief that getting France's cities are important, is there any reason we can't combine the peace and feudalism into one step to reduce the cost?

-- adaMada

	31-08-2002 06:52									#4
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Have looked into feudalism with peace. Just doesn;t seem to work well for us that way.

	31-08-2002 06:54									#5
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WHAT!? It costs less in the peace than as a separate deal, doesn't it?

Just checked: in the peace deal it costs 345 gold( ie we still have 26gpt and a treasury of 26). If we got it in a separate deal we would have no treasury and 16gpt.

I say that I like the idea-

EDIT: hmm, your plan doesn't look as bad as before when I actually go and play with the diplo screen with Jean. I need to think about this more. The only certain downside to all this is that our science rate would be curtailed for 20 turns since we need to keep up that 10gpt.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 31-08-2002 at 07:08

	31-08-2002 07:01									#6
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Well i can't be sure since I can't play ahead. The cost came from other discussions I've seen and seems about where it would cost.
MWIA, It might be cheaper but we would lose the new cities, which though they aren't great, they do add to our empire and with roads and monarchy they could be useful and more importantly they won't be french. Also I have never like putting techs unless they are pure gifts in a surrender. Prefer them later. I think the cost would be about the same. MWIA what wwould the cost be if we got 1 city instead of 2
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 31-08-2002 at 07:07

	31-08-2002 07:08									#7
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I goofed in how I said that. So far we cannot force joan to give us feudalism with the peace treaty and make out. Is that correct....

Just what MWIA said. He has it right. Tired. late. Orders posted. Will sleep soon, want to finish articel for gazette.

	31-08-2002 07:15									#8
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Well the gpt is an estimate and I just assumed she would want our treasury. Perhaps we can works some other deals out, let me see if any other nations have fuedalism and nothing else above us. Aslo if any are in mon/rep and don't have the other we might get GPT. Remember when we get connected we could trade things to joan.
Aggie

	31-08-2002 08:19									#9
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Techwhore. This plan will keep us from getting too far behind and we can finally switch to Monarchy. Go for it.

	31-08-2002 08:22									#10
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Any GPT is worth it for that tech, as money is really only good for tech right now anyway!

	31-08-2002 08:24									#11
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I just did further research, both the aztects and Babylon don't have feudalism I believe. Perhaps a trade could be made with them for montheism and we could be caught up. One thing about getting the new cities is that they will increase the # of troops we can support by 4. Still I understand if that is not the desire. I'll edit the new post on the addition.
Aggie

	31-08-2002 08:26									#12
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It would be very good to sell Feud to everyone, especially the Aztecs. It would extend that war to the north.

BTW, should we name foreign wars?

	31-08-2002 08:29									#13
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Why not name foreign wars, maybe thisone could be Montezuma's Revenge
Aggie

	31-08-2002 15:20									#14
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This is wrong. We need to get Feudalism through the peace deal. The French's cities are of very little use to us and we can get them later, in a 2nd campaign which is bound to come anyway.
After we get Feudalism through the peace settlement then the president should play the best deal he sees possible and techwhore all the technologies we have to everyone.

	31-08-2002 19:00									#15
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Shiber, I would like to get those cities. However if we don't, it would not be a disaster. Not doing this deal, this turn and letting the moment pass would be. However think of it this way, if we get those cities the fuedalism deal will cost about 10gpt or so more. Thats 200 gold. Now that strikes me as a good deal. Remember Roen could be useful givin time and without it they will have no cities east of the mountain(except chartes). Also remeber it is one less city we will have to attack, and thus less troop lose and less time needed for next war. Even if we can take it and chartes easily, we still would have to devote at least 2/3 turns for the attacks. The areas are off the main war path so the troops would then have to move back to the other war zone against the french. Leaving this city,Roen, would slow and complicate any future offensive. Also remember they will be defended by 2 pikemen then. For defensive purposes I think it is important. Also the extra +1 gold a turn will offset any gpt alittle and this GPT will keep going. In short 200 gold is a small price for Roen, the other cities due to distance is truly useless, however if we don't get these cities now our troops will DIE taking cities that we could have had for very little. If we lose one knight taking these cities the 200 gold is woth it. However I do not want this debate to center in on do we do the peace then trade for tech, I want it to be "Should me do the techwhoring?". Details like feudalism in the peace deal can be decided later.
Aggie

	31-08-2002 19:17									#16
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If we follow your plan then we'll be effectively paying 200 gold for Rouen. Rouen is not worth 200 gold, period. There are better places for cities and a settler only costs 30 shields.
Besides, we can get in in about 30 or 40 turns when we get back to finish the French, or we can culture-flip it.

	31-08-2002 19:37									#17
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I've got a question right now spawning from my own thoughts inside the Foreign Ministry... Disclaimer: this has no relation to what the Foreign Ministry may or may not do, I'm just asking so I can keep thinking about it and check that I'm not crazy.

If we didn't do this plan, and if we were to use Togas' orginal time-frame for Peace, and two turns from now we go for Peace and get Fudalism as part of that, as was the plan -- couldn't we turn around and trade it to Rome and Russia then? Of course, the opportunity might be over, should Rome buy from France, but we don't know that they'll do that in the next two turns, and if they don't... Couldn't we put this same plan into affect then, and at a much lesser price to ourselves?

Again, just thinking and wondering...

-- adaMada

	31-08-2002 19:44									#18
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I believe the best solution would be to get Feudalism from France and techwhore now. However, it might still be possible in two turns (though I strongly object continuing the war - see my End the war NOW thread).

	31-08-2002 19:45									#19
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Well shiber me and you will have to agree to disagree on this, for me its worth it just for the convienience of not having to take it later on(and imagine 3 or 4 knights having to attack and then heal after attacking it, and thats assuming we won't take loses there, we very well could, no matter what a delay getting them elsewhere.). Unlike Chartes, Roen might have trouble culturally assimilating. But this really isn't a big issue, my main concern is that we get this tech deal done. I think on that we are of one mind.
Aggie

	31-08-2002 19:52									#20
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We perhaps could adamada, however the risk is too great that Rome will trade to France, if they do that we lose big time. All our experiece says the AI trades when they can. Russia would automatically get it, then we lose at least 2 techs, the best we could do would be buy fuedalism and hopefully trade it to Aztect or Bablyon, but they won't have our money so the price would be another tech straight up. We would end up poorer and with one less tech. NO adamada the risk is too great, not to mention that if the archer attack port rouege and wins we have ruined this whole attack and it would have been for next to nothing. IMHO continuing the war is very irresponsible, yes we might be ok, but all the risk for NO GAIN is too high.
Aggie

	31-08-2002 20:00									#21
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After some consideration, I believe that is possible tech trade plan may be just what we needed. Sure it will screw with our science rate for a while, but it will be be at 10% for quite a while...

Waiting two turns to end the war may be risky, but the possibility of grabbing one or 2 extra French cities will be worth it. Not so much for our benefit, but to hurt the French...

I leave it up to the Prez and SMC when to end the war, but the plan should go ahead.

	31-08-2002 20:23									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie But this really isn't a big issue, my main concern is that we get this tech deal done. I think on that we are of one mind. Aggie

Yes, you got that right. I think the techwhoring plan is wonderful, I only disagree with the part about buying Feudalism instead of getting it through the peace negotiations.

	31-08-2002 20:25									#23
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Donal, I agree with you mostly, but don't you think we should rather get Feudalism through the peace terms and save the 10gpt and additional 26 gold?

	31-08-2002 23:52									#24
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hi ,

its sounds not bad , but it needs work on it , ...

have a nice day

Last edited by panag on 01-09-2002 at 02:48

	01-09-2002 01:37									#25
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This better work.