04-09-2002 03:52									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by neonext thrawn i didnt waste my money on this baby. trust me. it used to take a half hour to extract a 700 mb compressed file. now it takes a couple minutes.

That's HD speed, not CPU power.

quote: it used to take about 5 minutes to decode an mp3 file. now it takes about 10 seconds.

I can see that.

quote: i could list example after example, but by far the greatest thing is how fast games run on this thing. granted, part of that is due to upgrading from a 16mb voodoo 3 to a 64mb geforce 3, but it is in large part due to the way faster processor speed and ram.

I used to have a 16mb Vd3 card, until I upgraded to WinXP Pro, I hate nVidia for not releasing at least a basic patch.

quote: i can run renegade for example at 1600x1200 with absolutely no slow down. TBS games are supposed to be much easier on the CPU than FPS's. Civ3 is the only game on my system that runs slow (and obviously it isnt related to graphics)

You made my point. It's a TBS game because that the calculations could go unhindered by graphics.

quote: i'm a game programmer. i'm used to writing A* pathfinding algorithms and trying to make them as effecient as possible. there are many ways you can drastically cut down on the processing time required by AI players, and my position is that the boys at firaxis didn't care enough to take the time to do it. anyone remember total annihilation: kingdoms? when that first came out it was horribly slow on big maps with lots of units in multiplayer. the guys at cavedog worked their asses off and made a patch that made the game over twice as fast (and they proved it).

Name me a person here who is NOT a programmer.

I know of TA:K, but I didn't play it. TA:CC is what I play. However, the last patch (3. somthing) had a weaker AI. There was a patch in between that was agreed by many the best.

I suggest then you apply to Firaxis. I'm sure you have come up with a better algorithm that is O(log2 N)? Or you think that Firaxis already tried. Hell if I could figure it out I would write a skeleton of it and send it to Firaxis with my adress for the check.

quote: i feel really sorry for all the people out there who have to wait 5-10 min between turns, it's just not right IMO

Your right, but then, make sure everything works on your end, because I and the people above that have even LESS RAM then me have not problems.

Are you sure you don't mean 5-10 sec between turns?

	04-09-2002 04:35									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

my 1.4 t bird 256mb with plenty of crap running in the background says that marla's takes about 5 mins for 16 civs at around the time of cavalry iirc (i haven't played it for some time...)

and standard maps in the modern age are not noticably slower than in the middle ages...perhaps a minute for 5+ civs to make their moves.

	04-09-2002 05:04									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Flight my 1.4 t bird 256mb with plenty of crap running in the background says that marla's takes about 5 mins for 16 civs at around the time of cavalry iirc (i haven't played it for some time...) and standard maps in the modern age are not noticably slower than in the middle ages...perhaps a minute for 5+ civs to make their moves.

close the other programs then.

	04-09-2002 05:12									#34
	Got spare money?

lol

	04-09-2002 05:59									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Do make sure dust doesn't build up too much? Do you at least once a year resit all of the RAM, PCI/ISA/AGP cards, and CPU?

Dust? Resit? You have to be downright careless to let some card fall out, and dust? Except for fans dust doesn't effect stuff, circuits...maybe contacts, but the clips on all your cards should keep those contacts out of dust's reach =) No problem with dusting, but don't expect dusting to improve system performance

	04-09-2002 06:06									#36
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I know of TA:K, but I didn't play it. TA:CC is what I play. However, the last patch (3. somthing) had a weaker AI. There was a patch in between that was agreed by many the best.

TA is my all time favorite game. I know exactly what you mean about the dumb AI and there is a solution. Patch the game to 3.1 (the latest) and go to planetannihilation.com and to the AI center or whatever it is called. they have a huge list of AI's that you can download, and they are categorized by cheating and non-cheating. i only use the cheating AI's because there is not a single non-cheating TA AI that i can't beat every time i play.

quote: I suggest then you apply to Firaxis. I'm sure you have come up with a better algorithm that is O(log2 N)? Or you think that Firaxis already tried. Hell if I could figure it out I would write a skeleton of it and send it to Firaxis with my adress for the check.

Firaxis is among the last of the companies I would want to work for. I have lost way too much respect for them...
Also, it isn't just improving the algorithm itself, as greater efficiency can be made by improving the routines behind the pathfinding

quote: Are you sure you don't mean 5-10 sec between turns?

yes, but this is based on what other people have said, not my personal experience

	04-09-2002 16:39									#37
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 3: Don't run the computer when the temperature in the room nears 80 degrees (26.66 C), 85 (29.44 C) is pushing it. As you can see, having a computer is liking having a car.

Thrawn,
Thanks for the advice!
Oops on #3, I don't have air conditioning at home, and this summer I'm sure it was about 80F in the house most of the time.

Do you think I did any permanent damage?

By the way, I take it from your avatar that you liked the Star Wars books by Timothy Zahn. Great series, wasn't it? I hope they become movies someday.

- Skeeve

	04-09-2002 17:21									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

1: You should defrag your HD(s) at least once a week.

Almost pointless, a typical week's usage will not frag the hard drive by more than 2% or something
2: You should purchase extra fans for inside of your computer to cool it down.

Yeah but don't go overboard, anything around room temperate up to 40 degrees C is a good CPU temp (depends on AMD or Intel though)

3: Don't run the computer when the temperature in the room nears 80 degrees (26.66 C), 85 (29.44 C) is pushing it.

LOL, please. The only reason you'd need to do that is is you have no ventialtion at all besides your cpu fan. If it starts getting very hot then get more fans. I'e never heard of anyone with problems running in up to 40 degree c heat. If you mean system temp then that can still stand to be a bit higher.

4: Only run the computer when the humidity is between 20% and 80%.

*shrugs*

5: Keep the computer in a open space with a least 1 ft (30cm) all from all sides and make sure it not on the floor.

Is this a joke? Sure, make sure the fans aren't blowing into a wall but lol at that

6: Every year, clean the computer dust, if you don't feel you can, contact a local computer shop to clean the CPU (if you have carpeting, then you should check the inside every month)

No point, just be sure the fans and syncs don't get clogged

7: Limit the number of programs you run. For Win98SE/ME, this means ALT+CTRL+DEL and closing everything but Explorer, Systray, and RunDll. Win2K, XP (H/P), limit the tray icons to Volume Control, Power (for laptop users), Remove Hardware, and LAN. NO INTERNET SURFING.

Yeah that'll help a lot, but maybe not as much as you seem to think..

8: Once every few years, format and restore the HD, this will clean up the HD.

Don't install lots of crap in the first place and it won't need 'cleaning'. Just uninstall old programs you really never use and delete empty directories and temp files...etc

9: Make sure your power supply box can handle your computer. Generally, a 1GHz CPU or faster should have a 300 watt supply, below that a 250 watt should work.

Yep. Though if you did have a too-low PSU then you'd know about it after some normal usage crashing.

10: Visit Apolyton often and be Ming and Markos’ special friend.

Possibly your most vital point, and one that should be ignored at your peril.

	04-09-2002 17:31									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Hunter Hutchins Dust? Resit? You have to be downright careless to let some card fall out, and dust? Except for fans dust doesn't effect stuff, circuits...maybe contacts, but the clips on all your cards should keep those contacts out of dust's reach =) No problem with dusting, but don't expect dusting to improve system performance

Dust can cause your system to overheat because it effects cooling capacity.

	04-09-2002 18:13									#40
	Re: Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by fluxcapacitor ...w/ 16 Civ's going at it on a huge map, does the game still slow down quite a bit? I only run a 1.2GhZ TBird, and if I play on Marla's map w/ 16 Civs the end game gets very, very slow. How is it running like above 2.5GhZ? Anyone?

I'm playing the Deity level on the huge map with 16 civs all the time on my PIII 1.3Ghz laptop without any slow time. I do turn off all animated move.

	04-09-2002 18:42									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by neonext TA is my all time favorite game. I know exactly what you mean about the dumb AI and there is a solution. Patch the game to 3.1 (the latest) and go to planetannihilation.com and to the AI center or whatever it is called. they have a huge list of AI's that you can download, and they are categorized by cheating and non-cheating. i only use the cheating AI's because there is not a single non-cheating TA AI that i can't beat every time i play.

You fail to relieze, that they are just unit build weights. There is no AI.

quote: Firaxis is among the last of the companies I would want to work for. I have lost way too much respect for them... Also, it isn't just improving the algorithm itself, as greater efficiency can be made by improving the routines behind the pathfinding

Then don't play the game.

quote: yes, but this is based on what other people have said, not my personal experience

So what am I suppose to do?

	04-09-2002 18:59									#42
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Flight 1: You should defrag your HD(s) at least once a week. Almost pointless, a typical week's usage will not frag the hard drive by more than 2% or something

You do this so that it dosn't get too fragmented! Why wait until it really effects your computer?

quote: 2: You should purchase extra fans for inside of your computer to cool it down. Yeah but don't go overboard, anything around room temperate up to 40 degrees C is a good CPU temp (depends on AMD or Intel though)

50 F (10 C) to 95 F (30 C) is the range. Keeping the computer cool is the number one way to having a computer that will last. And I do A/C, but it does nothing... it's still reaches 80 F on any given summer day.

quote: 3: Don't run the computer when the temperature in the room nears 80 degrees (26.66 C), 85 (29.44 C) is pushing it. LOL, please. The only reason you'd need to do that is is you have no ventialtion at all besides your cpu fan. If it starts getting very hot then get more fans. I'e never heard of anyone with problems running in up to 40 degree c heat. If you mean system temp then that can still stand to be a bit higher.

The point is that it will last longer.

quote: 4: Only run the computer when the humidity is between 20% and 80%. *shrugs*

Humidity adds to the heat and the water in the air CAN short out somthing in the computer. How do I know this? IT HAPPENED TO ME!

quote: 5: Keep the computer in a open space with a least 1 ft (30cm) all from all sides and make sure it not on the floor. Is this a joke? Sure, make sure the fans aren't blowing into a wall but lol at that

THe circulations of a tower computer is all around it. You and the air to flow. THe computer doesn't cool by fan alone.

quote: 6: Every year, clean the computer dust, if you don't feel you can, contact a local computer shop to clean the CPU (if you have carpeting, then you should check the inside every month) No point, just be sure the fans and syncs don't get clogged

Dust builds up heat.

quote: 7: Limit the number of programs you run. For Win98SE/ME, this means ALT+CTRL+DEL and closing everything but Explorer, Systray, and RunDll. Win2K, XP (H/P), limit the tray icons to Volume Control, Power (for laptop users), Remove Hardware, and LAN. NO INTERNET SURFING. Yeah that'll help a lot, but maybe not as much as you seem to think..

Think again. You'll be surprised the number people out there that think they run Civ3 AND surf the net at the same time.

quote: 8: Once every few years, format and restore the HD, this will clean up the HD. Don't install lots of crap in the first place and it won't need 'cleaning'. Just uninstall old programs you really never use and delete empty directories and temp files...etc

Regardless of what crap you have the computer. There comes a point were this WILL speed up the computer. This cleans up system files and such that might have build up that you don't need. Uninstalling and deleteing temp files/folders can only go so far.

quote: 9: Make sure your power supply box can handle your computer. Generally, a 1GHz CPU or faster should have a 300 watt supply, below that a 250 watt should work. Yep. Though if you did have a too-low PSU then you'd know about it after some normal usage crashing.

True, but I wanted to point this for those who bought whiteboxes. You'll be surprise how many crooks out there that save a buck and install a 200watt PSU on a 2GHz computer.

quote: 10: Visit Apolyton often and be Ming and Markos’ special friend. Possibly your most vital point, and one that should be ignored at your peril.

I thought it was funny.


From your remarks, I can see why your turns take so long. I suggest you try my suggestions out and see what happens.

	04-09-2002 19:02									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Skeeve Thrawn, Thanks for the advice! Oops on #3, I don't have air conditioning at home, and this summer I'm sure it was about 80F in the house most of the time. Do you think I did any permanent damage? By the way, I take it from your avatar that you liked the Star Wars books by Timothy Zahn. Great series, wasn't it? I hope they become movies someday. - Skeeve

Not really, but it's highly recommended to find PCI slot fans or even fans that install into a 5" drive bay if you have an unused one (alas, I use both).

As for Zahn... those books are great. But I read them after I played TIE Fighter.

	04-09-2002 19:51									#44
	Put an end to popups!

ok...i just timed the game just to see if my guesses were anywhere near accurate and they were WELL out, mainly cos i was counting changing production in each city and worker moves...

on a 1.4ghz t-bird running winamp, mirc, ie (im still in civ3 atm) and lots of explorer windows as well as lots of systray stuff the AI turn takes 10 secs and it took 15 secs to load the savegame (standard map modern age with 5 civs left).

Bit faster than i thought

Humidity adds to the heat and the water in the air CAN short out somthing in the computer. How do I know this? IT HAPPENED TO ME!

ouch :/

	04-09-2002 22:54									#45
	Increase the size of your Attachments

System Stats:
P41.6ghz
Cache: 12K micro-op trace cache 8KB L1 Advanced Transfer Cache 256KB L2 Advanced Transfer Cache
400mhz System Bus
512 MB PC2100 DDR RAM
80 gig UltraDMA HDD
GeForce2 MX 200 64MB SDRAM(yeah, it sucks)
WinXP Home

Anyway, the I never notice a big slow-down. Longest i've had turns go is probably 30 seconds to a minute on big maps towards the end of the game. Runs pretty well and its never long enough to bother me, I play turn-based games just because I know theres no guy on the other end waiting for me(right now), or have to worry about the AI killing me for not paying attention. It waits on me much more then I wait for it.

quote: 7: Limit the number of programs you run. For Win98SE/ME, this means ALT+CTRL+DEL and closing everything but Explorer, Systray, and RunDll. Win2K, XP (H/P), limit the tray icons to Volume Control, Power (for laptop users), Remove Hardware, and LAN. NO INTERNET SURFING. Yeah that'll help a lot, but maybe not as much as you seem to think.. Think again. You'll be surprised the number people out there that think they run Civ3 AND surf the net at the same time.

Heh, i'll have to disagree with you here. Most of your other things are fairly decent advice, but this one only helps if your comp sucks in general. I play Civ3 while surfing apolyton, talking on IRC, leeching "stuff", and other things. I notice no change in turn time or slowdown from it. Not to mention all the programs i've got running, its really only needed if your computer can't handle it.

Oh, and for you WinXP users you can use msconfig to set what comes up at startup. Oh and I don't think my money was wasted either. I can do more with this then you can with yours, i'm sure. Its also a damn sight better then my old P150, which never would have ran Civ3 in the first place.

	05-09-2002 01:31									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions Heh, i'll have to disagree with you here. Most of your other things are fairly decent advice, but this one only helps if your comp sucks in general. I play Civ3 while surfing apolyton, talking on IRC, leeching "stuff", and other things. I notice no change in turn time or slowdown from it. Not to mention all the programs i've got running, its really only needed if your computer can't handle it. Oh, and for you WinXP users you can use msconfig to set what comes up at startup. Oh and I don't think my money was wasted either. I can do more with this then you can with yours, i'm sure. Its also a damn sight better then my old P150, which never would have ran Civ3 in the first place.

I suggest you take a look at Flights' post above yours on how important it is. Running multiple programs while running a game will cause slowdown.

msconfig is good, but I prefer startup cop, it has profiles and it won't delete entries and such. It's kinda idiot proof, which is good because you don't know what could happen if you disbale the wrong program at startup.




Flight: It was a packard bell. Stupid me, I left it on for a couple of days and it died. I took it to a local shop and he told me that humitiy added to the heat inside the computer and it basicly died. (it was a P 75Mhz with 16MB EDO RAM).

	05-09-2002 03:37									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Hunter Hutchins Dust? Resit? You have to be downright careless to let some card fall out, and dust? Except for fans dust doesn't effect stuff, circuits...maybe contacts, but the clips on all your cards should keep those contacts out of dust's reach =) No problem with dusting, but don't expect dusting to improve system performance

Ever hear of insulation?

Do you think you put it in your house to keep the cold out?

No, you don't you do it to keep the warmth in.

Dust insulate the curcuit boards, not allowing heat to escape, if that goes on long enough the board will fry.

	05-09-2002 09:30									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 You fail to relieze, that they are just unit build weights. There is no AI.

The cheating AI's include special structures that give the AI a nice much needed boost. Yet is mostly just limits and weights, but it DOES make a dramatic difference! However, certain parts of the way AI does things can be changed by editing the units/structures and the best AI's have these changes.
It may not be an actual AI, but the AI is vastly improved with the changes.

	05-09-2002 19:50									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by neonext The cheating AI's include special structures that give the AI a nice much needed boost. Yet is mostly just limits and weights, but it DOES make a dramatic difference! However, certain parts of the way AI does things can be changed by editing the units/structures and the best AI's have these changes. It may not be an actual AI, but the AI is vastly improved with the changes.

I just wished they would release the code... working with the AvPGE code is starting to bore me.


Lets end this on a good note... deal.