31-08-2002 23:41									#1
	Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Got spare money?

...w/ 16 Civ's going at it on a huge map, does the game still slow down quite a bit? I only run a 1.2GhZ TBird, and if I play on Marla's map w/ 16 Civs the end game gets very, very slow. How is it running like above 2.5GhZ? Anyone?

	01-09-2002 01:49									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Th game runs great with 1.9 GhZ, 526 MB RAM, Pentium 4, Radeon 8500 Graphics Card. I never slow down.

I am surprised yours is slowing down. Closing background programs may help.

	01-09-2002 02:33									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The key factor here is memory, much more than the
'size' of the processor.

	01-09-2002 03:06									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

my computer just plain sucks so huge mapes cant be done, but
i changed my world sizes so that standard was 120x120 and supports 16 civs, i can finish a game in a day.
the comp slows down looking through the huge folder but doesnt slow down with the standard, but if you increase the world size too much you run out of room for save game data and cant reload the game.

	01-09-2002 03:41									#5
	Re: Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by fluxcapacitor ...w/ 16 Civ's going at it on a huge map, does the game still slow down quite a bit? I only run a 1.2GhZ TBird, and if I play on Marla's map w/ 16 Civs the end game gets very, very slow. How is it running like above 2.5GhZ? Anyone?

(I'm having fun replying to posts like this )

I have a P3 550MHz and 256MB 100MHz SDRAM and WinXP Pro and I HAVE NO SLOW DOWN.

If you are running Win98SE, then you should only run these programs...

Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete
Close ANY AND ALL programs excpet:
Explorer
Systray
RunDll

Everything else has got to go.

Also, defrag your HD on a weekly basis if you can, or at LEAST twice a month.

And in the end you can't handle it, remember... IT'S A TBS GAME! If you can't stand it, either go and play a RTS game or walk around a little, stop vegitating in front of the computer. There is a world outside, and you don't need a scout unit to see it either.

	01-09-2002 04:02									#6
	Re: Re: Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 If you are running Win98SE, then you should only run these programs... Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete Close ANY AND ALL programs excpet: Explorer Systray RunDll Everything else has got to go.

Do you know if there are any other background programs running under Win 2000 Professional that I shouldn't close? I am running an older laptop with a PII 400 or 450 mz and 128 mb RAM and sufer real slowdowns in the late game.

Thanks.

Catt

	01-09-2002 04:11									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think 128mb says it all.... just not enough. If you can (and I know... it's a laptop) upgrade that to 256, 384 or 512 the improvement should be noticable.

Win2K tends to show a few more processes than Win9X, I think this is mostly because it's more honest about telling you what's actually running, it's possible for Win9X programs to not show up when you press ctrl-alt-del.

Win2K wont let you shut down critical stuff so you cant really go wrong just trying . But I do reccomend getting some sort of program to change what programs start at boot-up, system mechanic (google it) does that, and is safer because you can just disable a program from starting at boot-time, rather than removing it (so if it turns out it was required just re-enable it). System mechanic also has heaps of other things which may improve performance (clean up registry etc...).
Basically every application and it's dog likes to add a little program to start when your computer does, disable all of them and selectively re-enable them if you miss them.

	01-09-2002 04:33									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Blake I think 128mb says it all.... just not enough. If you can (and I know... it's a laptop) upgrade that to 256, 384 or 512 the improvement should be noticable. Win2K tends to show a few more processes than Win9X, I think this is mostly because it's more honest about telling you what's actually running, it's possible for Win9X programs to not show up when you press ctrl-alt-del. Win2K wont let you shut down critical stuff so you cant really go wrong just trying .

Thanks. I just plan on buying a new laptop sometime in the next 6 months rather than upgrading this one - it has served relatively faithfully but deserves to put out of its misery.

I try and shut down what I can before starting Civ 3, but the obscure background applications running that are listed in the Task Manager are so numerous as to insipre a certain degree of fear - this is a MS product after all, and shutting down the wrong application could very cause the sun to rise in the west tomorrow morning (or at least that's how it sometimes feels ).

I think I'll try crossing my fingers and shutting down everything except what Thrawn05 suggests (counting only on a penalty of a reboot and the hope that Win2K won't let me do something stupid as you suggest it should).

Thanks again.

Catt

	01-09-2002 05:27									#9
	Re: Re: Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 (I'm having fun replying to posts like this ) I have a P3 550MHz and 256MB 100MHz SDRAM and WinXP Pro and I HAVE NO SLOW DOWN.

(and i have fun reading your system specs )

so you are saying that on a 256x256 map with 15 AI civs and the whole map settled at the end of the modern age you get ABSOLUTELY NO SLOW DOWN BETWEEN your turns???? we are not talking about normal gameplay here, we are talking about the total time it takes for all the AI players to make their moves, which WILL be slow on ANY computer bought by the general public.

	02-09-2002 01:30									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I run the game on PII 333 with 192 Megs of RAM, I always play on huge maps with 16 civs, the endgame slows down a little bit, but it is not that annoying, the turns don't last incredibly long, the longest was about 2 or 3 minutes, this was when I was getting near to 2000 AD, I don't know were the difference could be? I do turn off the automated animations etc.

	02-09-2002 01:33									#11
	Re: Re: Re: Question for you kids w/ REALLY fast CPU's like 2.5GhZ +... Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Catt Do you know if there are any other background programs running under Win 2000 Professional that I shouldn't close? I am running an older laptop with a PII 400 or 450 mz and 128 mb RAM and sufer real slowdowns in the late game. Thanks. Catt

Win2k and WinXP have a lot better control of memory then Win9x, that it's not an issue. Just get ride of Ant-Virus programs, IM programs, and firewall programs. The rest can stay.

	02-09-2002 01:35									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by neonext (and i have fun reading your system specs ) so you are saying that on a 256x256 map with 15 AI civs and the whole map settled at the end of the modern age you get ABSOLUTELY NO SLOW DOWN BETWEEN your turns???? we are not talking about normal gameplay here, we are talking about the total time it takes for all the AI players to make their moves, which WILL be slow on ANY computer bought by the general public.

(This guy thinks I'm stupid )

Of course I mean BETWEEN TURNS.

I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH 256X256 W/ 16 CIVS AND INTO THE FEATURE TECH AGE!!!

	02-09-2002 01:39									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Blake Win2K wont let you shut down critical stuff so you cant really go wrong just trying . But I do reccomend getting some sort of program to change what programs start at boot-up, system mechanic (google it) does that, and is safer because you can just disable a program from starting at boot-time, rather than removing it (so if it turns out it was required just re-enable it). System mechanic also has heaps of other things which may improve performance (clean up registry etc...). Basically every application and it's dog likes to add a little program to start when your computer does, disable all of them and selectively re-enable them if you miss them.

Or just get StartUp Cop from PC Mag... it's free.

Also, for you Win98SE users, I suggest FreeMem Std (freeware) to help with your memory.

Both programs I highly recommend.

	02-09-2002 08:14									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 (This guy thinks I'm stupid ) Of course I mean BETWEEN TURNS. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH 256X256 W/ 16 CIVS AND INTO THE FEATURE TECH AGE!!!

i dont think ur stupid, i just think ur a liar

but that's okay

	02-09-2002 17:52									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

No slow down?????

On a huge map (256 X 256) with 16 civs it takes about 15 minutes for the AI to go through it's turn. Plus it takes at least 15 to go through the building stage of my turn. Especially annoying are the 60 second delays everytime a city builds an airport. Ugghhh!!!!

Of course, at this stage of the game there are 512 cities on the map. Maybe Thrawn05 plays One City Wonder games?

But in any case, I'm using a P4 1600MHz with 512MB RAM and WinXP. There's no way that any game with a reasonable amount of cities (400 = 25 cities per civ) is going to be as quick as a "just started" game with only a few cities.

	02-09-2002 19:59									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by neonext i dont think ur stupid, i just think ur a liar but that's okay

How dare you call me a liar. I suggest you search the forums here for a thread (there's a million of them) that have constantly beat down this subject. You'll see that I've been consistant with my claim and there are many others who back me up.

So before you call me a liar, I suggest you do my suggestions I've posted, and if you don't like waiting even for 20 seconds then I suggest you either play a RTS game or get a life and get up and walk around a bit and get some air! It's a damn TBS game, there is a reason for it!

	03-09-2002 02:33									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i don't mean it in such a harsh way, i should have explained it better (either that or i picked the wrong word to use). it's just really really really hard to believe. you're the only person saying it, you have no proof and i see first hand how slow civ3 runs on 2+ ghz computers (with 500+ mb ddr ram etc etc), it's hard to believe something with about 1/5th or 6th the power can be so dramatically faster.

as for your suggestions to read your other posts, there is no need, as i know you have made the point countless times. i kept letting it go, but this time i felt i had to respond.

as for your suggestions to stop playing TBS games and get a life. hmm do i have to go over all the shortcomings of firaxis latest civ installment? do we not have a right to complain about things we take for granted in the game industry these days? it's like the choice of picking what resolution you want to play in. i mean wtf? i'm sorry but there is not a single TBS game that should run this #$@$@ing slow on these fast computers



sorry if i took my frustration out on you, but it is not fair that you have some civ3-friendly magic computer

	03-09-2002 03:39									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Running 512mb, 1700+ and consistently get around 5 second waits. Actual wait time is multiplied by watching the AI move, which is a good thing, not nuch time wasted even into modern.

Oh, btw, I never turn things off in the backround. Gotta have virus protection!

	03-09-2002 05:44									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by neonext i don't mean it in such a harsh way, i should have explained it better (either that or i picked the wrong word to use). it's just really really really hard to believe. you're the only person saying it, you have no proof and i see first hand how slow civ3 runs on 2+ ghz computers (with 500+ mb ddr ram etc etc), it's hard to believe something with about 1/5th or 6th the power can be so dramatically faster.

There is NO difference between a 500MHz cpu and a 1Ghz, and 2GHz isn't that much either. I think you talk to panag about that. I'm still using my 550Mhz and saving up for a 10GHz when those come out. What is important is your bus speed, that bottle necks things up. Limiting running programs solves this. Also, cool your PC down. I suggest PCI slot fans (I have two, one of which is right next to my video card).

quote: as for your suggestions to read your other posts, there is no need, as i know you have made the point countless times. i kept letting it go, but this time i felt i had to respond.

Thanks for extra post counts then

quote: as for your suggestions to stop playing TBS games and get a life. hmm do i have to go over all the shortcomings of firaxis latest civ installment? do we not have a right to complain about things we take for granted in the game industry these days? it's like the choice of picking what resolution you want to play in. i mean wtf? i'm sorry but there is not a single TBS game that should run this #$@$@ing slow on these fast computers sorry if i took my frustration out on you, but it is not fair that you have some civ3-friendly magic computer

And I have the right to point out that I have no problems with giga maps. Civ3 has only really just one short comming IMHO, and it's nothing to do with the topic in question. If you find that there are too many short comings, then don't bother with the game.

My computer is not a magic computer. Have you played this game on a WinXP Pro (which BTW, was upgraded from a Win98SE) P3 550MHz 256 SDRAM? I have a P4m 1.6GHz 256MB Sodium RAM laptop and I see no difference in performance. I can't help it if I can play a giga map and you can't.


However I will agree with you on this: after placeing so many cities and roads on a map in the editor, it take forever for it to place something simple like a unit.

	03-09-2002 05:58									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I run an Amd K6-2 500Mhz with 128 megs of RAM. I close everything as Thrawn does. I have little problem with between turn waiting. Oh, this is on Windows ME.

	03-09-2002 06:25									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by alva848 The key factor here is memory, much more than the 'size' of the processor.

So it is different than SMAC in that respect then.. (in SMAC I remember it was the size of the processor)

Jon Miller

	03-09-2002 07:20									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I played on a p4 1.3 GHz with 256 mb ram without any significant slowdown

	03-09-2002 07:46									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I run an Amd K6-2 500Mhz with 128 megs of RAM. I close everything as Thrawn does. I have little problem with between turn waiting. Oh, this is on Windows ME.

Thank you Tuberski. I'm suprised myself with WinME. I could only imagine what it would be like on Win98SE.

	03-09-2002 10:41									#24
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 There is NO difference between a 500MHz cpu and a 1Ghz, and 2GHz isn't that much either. I think you talk to panag about that. I'm still using my 550Mhz and saving up for a 10GHz when those come out. What is important is your bus speed, that bottle necks things up. Limiting running programs solves this. Also, cool your PC down. I suggest PCI slot fans (I have two, one of which is right next to my video card).

i shelled out the extra bucks for the 'good' motherboard, with good bus speeds and support for ddr ram (i have 512 mb in right now). not sure about the temperature of the computer however

quote: And I have the right to point out that I have no problems with giga maps. Civ3 has only really just one short comming IMHO, and it's nothing to do with the topic in question. If you find that there are too many short comings, then don't bother with the game.

yes that is true, but i've been waiting to play civ3 since civ2 came out (like so many other people). the truth is i don't even like playing huge maps, i like the small ones anyway but it still bothers me when modern fully commercial games can't keep up even on the hottest hardware. basically, i paid extra to have good speed, so i want good speed

quote: My computer is not a magic computer. Have you played this game on a WinXP Pro (which BTW, was upgraded from a Win98SE) P3 550MHz 256 SDRAM? I have a P4m 1.6GHz 256MB Sodium RAM laptop and I see no difference in performance. I can't help it if I can play a giga map and you can't.

actually, i am using WinXP Pro (and i would never ever ever ever go back). and it's not just i who can't play on giga maps, it's many many many non-book-readers out there

	03-09-2002 18:38									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by neonext i shelled out the extra bucks for the 'good' motherboard, with good bus speeds and support for ddr ram (i have 512 mb in right now). not sure about the temperature of the computer however

Then you wasted money there. It sounds like you got a whitebox, so there might be a problem. I highly recommend that you buy some PCI slot fans, they are great. Just make sure you have an unused HD/CD power cable inside. Also, make sure it's not humid. A PC can handle from 20% to 80%.

quote: yes that is true, but i've been waiting to play civ3 since civ2 came out (like so many other people). the truth is i don't even like playing huge maps, i like the small ones anyway but it still bothers me when modern fully commercial games can't keep up even on the hottest hardware. basically, i paid extra to have good speed, so i want good speed

I'm not like so many other people. I skipped Civ2. Only because it had many of the problems that Civ1 had. Civ3 solved many of them. If you paid this type of money for a 2GHz comptuer, then again, you wasted your money. You should of waited for a 10Ghz computer were there WOULD be a difference.

quote: actually, i am using WinXP Pro (and i would never ever ever ever go back). and it's not just i who can't play on giga maps, it's many many many non-book-readers out there

I hear you, but I didn't need it because I had no probs with Win98SE (no BSOD). I did because I got myself a little LAN here. And unless Lindows supports NTFS file format, I won't switch.

I can't help it if you can't play a giga map and I can. You must not be maintaining the comptuer right or somthing. Remember a lot of those people play Civ3 AND surf the net at the same time. Which says a lot.

Do make sure dust doesn't build up too much? Do you at least once a year resit all of the RAM, PCI/ISA/AGP cards, and CPU?

	03-09-2002 20:09									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

P4 2.0, 250 slow down is noticeable, but not problematic. Turns in the end game take at most 15 seconds.

	03-09-2002 20:57									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'v had no slow down either, and I have a 800MHZ AMD, with 128 MB RAM and a Nvidia TNT2Pro vid card.

I do not ever actually make it to the end game though..I get bored around the early modern age, when most civs stop poseing a real challenge.

I really should consider moving up to monarch now. LoL, I just hate the idea of going against a cheating AI past that 'point'.

Now, -I- am slow..I can only imagine how frustrated the AI must get waiting for my 10mhz , 100KB ram brain...

	03-09-2002 21:43									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Edit: This message is primarily addressed to Thrawn and Neonext...but anyone else feel free to respond.

You guys seem to be pretty edu-ma-cated on this stuff, so maybe you can help me out:

I am playing CIV3 on a P4 2.4Ghz, 512 ram computer and everything is fine with 16 civs until the late modern age when I start automating the workers.
Then the slowdown begins. It's never bad enough to get me frustrated, but I think with my machine, it could be better.

What suggestions do you have for me?
By the way, I'm running Windows XP (home).

Thanks,
- Skeeve

	04-09-2002 00:57									#29
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Skeeve Edit: This message is primarily addressed to Thrawn and Neonext...but anyone else feel free to respond. You guys seem to be pretty edu-ma-cated on this stuff, so maybe you can help me out: I am playing CIV3 on a P4 2.4Ghz, 512 ram computer and everything is fine with 16 civs until the late modern age when I start automating the workers. Then the slowdown begins. It's never bad enough to get me frustrated, but I think with my machine, it could be better. What suggestions do you have for me? By the way, I'm running Windows XP (home). Thanks, - Skeeve

Well techinicaly, automatic worker jobs are part of your turn, so you need to time the period between pressing the space bar and seeing the first worker move.

Somthing I came accross from a programer from Raven (but I to find it hard to believe), is that there is such a thing as "too much ram". I don't believe it, but after seeing other people with even 128MB of RAM it's got me thinking.

Here are the Ten Commandments of having a healthly computer.

1: You should defrag your HD(s) at least once a week.

2: You should purchase extra fans for inside of your computer to cool it down.

3: Don't run the computer when the temperature in the room nears 80 degrees (26.66 C), 85 (29.44 C) is pushing it.

4: Only run the computer when the humidity is between 20% and 80%.

5: Keep the computer in a open space with a least 1 ft (30cm) all from all sides and make sure it not on the floor.

6: Every year, clean the computer dust, if you don't feel you can, contact a local computer shop to clean the CPU (if you have carpeting, then you should check the inside every month)

7: Limit the number of programs you run. For Win98SE/ME, this means ALT+CTRL+DEL and closing everything but Explorer, Systray, and RunDll. Win2K, XP (H/P), limit the tray icons to Volume Control, Power (for laptop users), Remove Hardware, and LAN. NO INTERNET SURFING.

8: Once every few years, format and restore the HD, this will clean up the HD.

9: Make sure your power supply box can handle your computer. Generally, a 1GHz CPU or faster should have a 300 watt supply, below that a 250 watt should work.

10: Visit Apolyton often and be Ming and Markos’ special friend.

As you can see, having a computer is liking having a car.

	04-09-2002 03:38									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

thrawn i didnt waste my money on this baby. trust me.

it used to take a half hour to extract a 700 mb compressed file. now it takes a couple minutes.

it used to take about 5 minutes to decode an mp3 file. now it takes about 10 seconds.

i could list example after example, but by far the greatest thing is how fast games run on this thing. granted, part of that is due to upgrading from a 16mb voodoo 3 to a 64mb geforce 3, but it is in large part due to the way faster processor speed and ram.

i can run renegade for example at 1600x1200 with absolutely no slow down. TBS games are supposed to be much easier on the CPU than FPS's. Civ3 is the only game on my system that runs slow (and obviously it isnt related to graphics)

i'm a game programmer. i'm used to writing A* pathfinding algorithms and trying to make them as effecient as possible. there are many ways you can drastically cut down on the processing time required by AI players, and my position is that the boys at firaxis didn't care enough to take the time to do it. anyone remember total annihilation: kingdoms? when that first came out it was horribly slow on big maps with lots of units in multiplayer. the guys at cavedog worked their asses off and made a patch that made the game over twice as fast (and they proved it).

i feel really sorry for all the people out there who have to wait 5-10 min between turns, it's just not right IMO