31-08-2002 23:56									#1
	Pollution mania Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you have crappy land make others land bad by letting you poulltion get insane. (like an iceburg) You can clear up the tiltles for free using slave wrokers. Nukeing some one can cause hyper GW.

	01-09-2002 00:44									#2
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Ya, I cant wait to do that in MP...

	01-09-2002 04:10									#3
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If you survive to the modern age and have the resources to build nukes despite that your tiles suck, well ok. But then you have to be a VERY good player. At least above regent level.

	02-09-2002 14:32									#4
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Nah, all you need to do is not clean the pollution caused by population, which starts since a bit after hospitals if not before, that is enough to produce a bit of pollution, not cleaning it for a while will acumulate enough pollution to start triggering global warming.

	02-09-2002 15:36									#5
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This global warming nonsense really detracts from the game.

	02-09-2002 16:29									#6
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Well, if you ask me, the game would be better off WITH pollution and WITHOUT global warming.

*BUT* If there ends up being global warming (and so far nothing seems to point that there wont) I'm going to be there to exploit it and milk it until the planet runs dry.

	05-09-2002 06:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Sean This global warming nonsense really detracts from the game.

Quit sticking your head in the sand, GW is real!

anyhoo, you guys gave me an idea.

	05-09-2002 07:26									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Quit sticking your head in the sand, GW is real! anyhoo, you guys gave me an idea.

Is it, in they 70's they were talking about another ice age.

	10-09-2002 10:51									#9
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Pollution from pop requires Hospitals. If you make a size 12 and no factory you will not get pollution triangles in that city.
I agree either pollution and no GW or allow GW and give us back full terraforming ala Civ2.

	11-09-2002 04:47									#10
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If global warming is real, then it would because we are coming out of an ice-age. An ice age is any era where there is ice on the polar caps at all! It is the history of the earth to move in and out of these ice ages. To say it is caused by humans is really arrogant!

So I agree with some pollution in the game, but not with global warming.

	11-09-2002 21:46									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sean If global warming is real, then it would because we are coming out of an ice-age. An ice age is any era where there is ice on the polar caps at all! It is the history of the earth to move in and out of these ice ages. To say it is caused by humans is really arrogant! So I agree with some pollution in the game, but not with global warming.

Some types of Ice Age cant really be caused by human intervention, however, there can be a very big and ugly global nuclear winter as result of dust and opaque materials flying into the atmosphere and making it so opaque that it reduces the sunlight that reaches the surface, think of it as having big dark opaque clouds 24/7 all over the planet. Another possible cause of an Ice Age (suspected cause of the last ice age and expected cause of the next up-coming ice age) is volcanoes. Some volcanoes can have huge explosions and release huge amounts of dust into the atmosphere. And then there's metheors, a metheor the size of Germany, for example, cant "destroy" the planet but depending on what it is made of and a few other things it could release huge dust clouds into the atmosphere resulting in something like a nuclear winter. This information could be wrong but this is what I was told.

I think land desertification isnt strongest effect of global warming, instead, it seems that as result of our uncontrolled uncouncsious releasing of heat and energy into the environment weather effects come back to us more energy-charged. Resulting in more agressive tropical storms, blizards, huricanes and similar ecosystem weatherwise "energy balancing" processes. It's not that global warming "causes" these processes, it just charges them more so they become stronger.

But, gameplaywise, the game would be better off with pollution and without these nasty global warming effects.

	12-09-2002 01:41									#12
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This thread was really about terraforming by creating a nuclear winter.

Still, no one have explained how to build nukes when you are sitting on an iceberg.

	12-09-2002 02:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre This thread was really about terraforming by creating a nuclear winter. Still, no one have explained how to build nukes when you are sitting on an iceberg.

No no no, it was not about terraforming, it was about messing up a dessertifiying everones lands trough pollution.

It does not require nukes, nukes can be the upgrades of it. It just requires you to build hospitals, population polutes, then just leave polution trigger global warming.

And if you are doing poor, sittin on an iceberg like you say, so that it's too hard to do anything at all (nukes are not so expensive), just disconnect and join a game where you get to have a chance to grab good lands that can build large poluting cities. You dont need to be sitting in an iceberg.

	13-09-2002 06:32									#14
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This would never work agaisnt humans because they will know what you are doing and make war on you. By the way Olaf you can just trade with the AI.

	13-09-2002 07:38									#15
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Terrain change throughout history is undoubtably true (current examples, advancing deserts in north Africa and in China, near Beijing). In Civ, it only occurs due to global warming. I would prefer occasional changes (even towards grassland) throughout the game.

	14-09-2002 16:23									#16
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The thing i most dislike about pollution in this game is there's no way to eliminate it (other that cutting your production way down). Because of this and the way Global Warming is determined in the game, Global Warming is always inevitable if the game doesn't end beforehand.

Either go back to the civ2 model for warming (i.e. based on pollution on the ground only) or have some method of eliminating the pollution in your cities.

	15-09-2002 01:41									#17
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Or just leave pollution where it is and discard global warming.

Or just leave it as it is and let me exploit global warming.

	19-09-2002 05:38									#18
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I would like it the second way... :Love:

	23-09-2002 03:29									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Is it, in they 70's they were talking about another ice age.

Global warming could actually trigger another ice age. And if that sounds like a load of crap to you, then, with all due respect, you don't understand the complexities involved, or the difference between weather and climate.

I loved the Bush administration's recent stance on global warming: "Yes, it exists, humans are contributing to it, and it could be a major problem. We're still not gonna do anything about it."

That sounds almost as if it were calculated to make everyone mad. The most obvious explanation is that they were just being honest, but how often do you see that in politics?

	23-09-2002 08:16									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I am glad you have a handle on, since 100's of scientist can't agree. I am not saying yeah or nay, only that given the track record of the people making claims about food/climate and the future, I would not be placing any bets.

	23-09-2002 21:12									#21
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i hate it when the friggin' AI does this to me. "global warming has changed grasslands to plains!" oh, hallelujah. please, make it change to desert next.

i have a question - do tundra tiles change to anything as the result of global warming??? i've never seen this happen, but then again, i haven't played as long or thoroughly as some of you. if it DOES change, say, to grasslands, letting your pollution get out of control could be a VERY viable strategy.

	23-09-2002 21:14									#22
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Since YOU can change tundra to forest...

	23-09-2002 22:00									#23
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yeah, but does the tundra terrain itself ever change as the result of global warming the same way the grasslands/plains tiles do?

	23-09-2002 22:50									#24
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I have not seen the tundra change, don't know if that is possible, if it can that would be an improvement.