01-09-2002 07:37									#1
	Can I move the Forbidden Palace? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I usually build the FP after my main group of cities are built and further peaceful expansion is not possible. However, later in the game when I have, for example, assimilated another civ I want to move my FP. Now I know I could just build a new Palace, but your not supposed to just move your Capitol around willy nilly

So, is there a way to make it so that I can build a new FP in a different city?

	01-09-2002 07:53									#2
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No. It is a small wonder. Wonders may never be built again once completed.

Each civ may build each small wonder once.

Each large wonder may only be built once, period.

The palace is not a wonder.

	01-09-2002 08:56									#3
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well, you can, if you really neede to.
If you destroy it (abandon city), you can (re)build it someplace else.
Does seem abit drastic.
Still, it is an option

	01-09-2002 09:29									#4
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You can rebuild it if lost? Wow. I was under the impression you could not.

Can you rebuild Great Wonders if you abandon the city?

	01-09-2002 09:49									#5
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No, I think GWs lost are gone forever.

stonewall, there actually is a strategy for moving your Palace around, having to do with productivity and culture flipping. In both the General and Strategy forums, there have been recent threads on this topic. So far, I think, Catt has laid out the best example of this, using Palace moves to advantage in a difficult deity game. I've just been experimenting / learning how do do it this weekend, and it's very effective.

	01-09-2002 19:20									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus No, I think GWs lost are gone forever. stonewall, there actually is a strategy for moving your Palace around.......

I know I could do that, but I seem to have a sentimental attachment to my capital city

Is there a way to change the FP in the editor to allow it to be sold (for 0 gold), then rebuilt somewhere else?

I guess I will have to read those Palace stategies you mentioned...thanks.

	01-09-2002 20:13									#7
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Stonewall:

Can't be sold unless you turn it into an improvement, which would remove the FP's powers.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

And I don't think it would have an effect on your current game anyway, since the rules are loaded at the start and stay the same throughout the game, IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

	01-09-2002 21:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov And I don't think it would have an effect on your current game anyway, since the rules are loaded at the start and stay the same throughout the game, IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you're right about that. Once the game has started, the rules can't be changed, you have to start a new game.

	01-09-2002 21:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by stonewall I know I could do that, but I seem to have a sentimental attachment to my capital city

You'll need to get over this. Palace location can be a very valuable tool. In nearly every game your initial palace location will end up sub-optimal for the late game, either due to corruption/productivity or culture reasons.

	02-09-2002 01:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by stonewall I know I could do that, but I seem to have a sentimental attachment to my capital city

I'm with you. I can't see playing the Romans, not having Roma the seat of power. I usualy just do what you do, wait until I can't expand anymore.

Besides, I think it's a bad omen to play as Rome and move the capital, since that's what they did and look what happened.

I would like to the FP to move around, at least at a limit of 2 or 3 times then that's it.

	02-09-2002 02:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I'm with you. I can't see playing the Romans, not having Roma the seat of power. I usualy just do what you do, wait until I can't expand anymore. Besides, I think it's a bad omen to play as Rome and move the capital, since that's what they did and look what happened.

Meh, just rename wherever you move the palace to Rome.

	02-09-2002 04:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Meh, just rename wherever you move the palace to Rome.

Rename a city? Blasphemous!

	02-09-2002 16:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Rename a city? Blasphemous!

He, he, he Blasphemous but smart! Nice suggestion Vlad!

I don't use to rename my cities, but sometimes for strategical reason I give away bad placed town just conquered to another Civ.
In that case, to avoid silly mistakes, I usually rename it "Gift" or "ForSale", just to be sure when I pick it up from the list in diplomacy screen.
Still, is very funny that AI Civ usually keep the crazy name I chose until the game end

	02-09-2002 18:55									#14
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Forbidden Palace is the WORST small wonder in the game, why? Simply this: you always need a minimum of 120 turns to finish it. I always use it as mi "capitol in a far area full of cities" like new continents, but the dramatic corruption rate always slows the building.

*PLEASE FIRAXIS* Is possible that when you start Forbidden Palace, a "royal member" is send to the city to manage the building and this reduces the corruption to the true capitol amount? *please* *please* *please*

	02-09-2002 20:10									#15
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Most people do 'burn' a GL to build their FP IMO.

It should not be to easy to build it, again IMHO.

btw: I never move my palace either
( does the AI use this palace jump tactic?? Maybe we should just start to call this an exploit then. )

	02-09-2002 20:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 Most people do 'burn' a GL to build their FP IMO. It should not be to easy to build it, again IMHO. btw: I never move my palace either ( does the AI use this palace jump tactic?? Maybe we should just start to call this an exploit then. )

The only time the AI moves a capital is if you capture or raze their capital city. There are some things I found that AI doesn't do, Palace jumping and disbanding usless units for starters.



BTW: I'll keep as it is. Corruptions doesn't bother me that much. In fact in my mod, Regent has 110% corruption just to make more fun.

	02-09-2002 20:34									#17
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quote: BTW: I'll keep as it is. Corruptions doesn't bother me that much. In fact in my mod, Regent has 110% corruption just to make more fun.

aaaaahh, that's the spirit

	02-09-2002 23:20									#18
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quote: I'm with you. I can't see playing the Romans, not having Roma the seat of power.

You do know that numerous Roman Emporers moved the capital around, from Milan to Ravenna to Constantinopel. so just pretend you're Constantine the Great

	03-09-2002 00:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo Forbidden Palace is the WORST small wonder in the game, why? Simply this: you always need a minimum of 120 turns to finish it. I always use it as mi "capitol in a far area full of cities" like new continents, but the dramatic corruption rate always slows the building.

Actually, 200 turns. There are various methods to speed up the process, though.

http://www.zachriel.com/ForbiddenPalace.htm

	03-09-2002 00:06									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You just have to place it the right place from the start then.

	03-09-2002 00:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo Forbidden Palace is the WORST small wonder in the game, why? Simply this: you always need a minimum of 120 turns to finish it. I always use it as mi "capitol in a far area full of cities" like new continents, but the dramatic corruption rate always slows the building. *PLEASE FIRAXIS* Is possible that when you start Forbidden Palace, a "royal member" is send to the city to manage the building and this reduces the corruption to the true capitol amount? *please* *please* *please*

Nice idea, but why should the FP be treated different than other wonders?

	03-09-2002 05:48									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus You do know that numerous Roman Emporers moved the capital around, from Milan to Ravenna to Constantinopel. so just pretend you're Constantine the Great

Call me a traditionalist.


BTW, how long did Rome last after Constantine the Great moved the capital to Constantinopel?

	03-09-2002 05:50									#23
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 aaaaahh, that's the spirit

Regent: 110%
Monarch: 125%
Emperor: 133%
Deity: 166%

	03-09-2002 06:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by stonewall I know I could do that, but I seem to have a sentimental attachment to my capital city Is there a way to change the FP in the editor to allow it to be sold (for 0 gold), then rebuilt somewhere else? I guess I will have to read those Palace stategies you mentioned...thanks.

If you are THAT attached, build your FP in your capital city. However, I can't remember if you have to move the Palace first or not.

	03-09-2002 06:16									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski If you are THAT attached, build your FP in your capital city. However, I can't remember if you have to move the Palace first or not.

But then it wouldn't be my capital anymore !!

That is an interesting idea though.....

	03-09-2002 06:22									#26
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quote: Originally posted by stonewall But then it wouldn't be my capital anymore !! That is an interesting idea though.....

True, but it does haver a the FP which does the exact same thing as a capital.

	03-09-2002 09:29									#27
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Not quite... Palace effect on culture.

Another example of Capitol moves, though: New York, Philadelphia, and then (sell out to the South), the swampland now know as Washington, DC.

Like us all, though, I always feel an attachment to my original capitol... henceforth, to combat this non-optimal urge, my capitol will be wherever I damn want it to be, and will always be named, regardless of civ played... THESEOPOLIS!!

	03-09-2002 15:39									#28
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BTW-- There's a method for easily moving your Palace without a GL-- "palace-jumping". Aeson can explain it better than I can. From this thread (scroll to the last few posts):

quote: When you disband your capitol (or lose it to the AI) your Palace will automatically be built in another of your cities. In the early game when all your cities are building Settlers, it's pretty easy to move your capitol this way. It almost always will hit the 'target' city if it is the only city size 3+. With multiple larger cities it becomes very hard to predict exactly where the Palace will end up though. Very useful in situations where you start out on the coast, on a peninsula or isthmus, or on the edges of a high food area. I almost always start out my games planning on jumping my Palace. If it ends up my capitol is nicely centered, great! If not, I'm prepared to make it so. As Sir Ralph mentioned, this can be used to build the FP in a productive area, and then jump the Palace to a new city. You have to be careful though, sometimes the Palace will jump to the FP city, make sure it's at size 1 when you do the jump.

	03-09-2002 17:44									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 BTW, how long did Rome last after Constantine the Great moved the capital to Constantinopel?

Rome fell within 150 years, but the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) lasted over 1100 years. If they had built a FP in Veii, the West might have also survived

	03-09-2002 20:46									#30
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quote: Originally posted by metalhead Rome fell within 150 years, but the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) lasted over 1100 years. If they had built a FP in Veii, the West might have also survived

The Easter Roman Empire were a bunch of traiters. Soon Rome will rise again and teach them to behave.