28-01-2001 16:31									#1
	Switch to CtP II PBEM Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, I know this is CtP I forum, but this article is meant for those playing CtP I PBEM, and not having CtP II. These people just don't monitor the CtP II forums, so I post here.
many of you didn't buy CtP II because the AI is to easy for you, and CtP II has no PBEM. These are people like Quinns, and till this Friday, it was me as well. But now, PBEM is available in CtP II - all you have to do is replace one of your files with another version, that will be uploaded soon, so that you don't have to modify the file on your own.
CtP II has cute new features, and I believe that with PBEM it's worth buying. Note that if you crack your executable, you won't be able to start new PBEMs, only play in the exisiting ones. Better buy the original one, of course.
Related topics: CtP II - General - Solver's 1st day of CtP II (Solver), CtP II - Multiplaying - So, PBEM is available (Solver), CtP II - Multiplaying - Oh, what the heck (Mr Ogre).

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	28-01-2001 19:01									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I am curious how others that have experience with CTPII feel about this. After reading the posts and the fact that it does not have (I thought) PBEM I decided not to buy the game. It is a pity the game apparently is not so good that everyone decided to move on to CTPII. The more so because now some of us go over to CTPII and some of us perhaps won't. This will split our already small community in two, making each of these even smaller.

Solver, is it possible to play CTPI and CTPII on the same machine?

Franses

	28-01-2001 23:57									#3
	Got spare money?

Sorry Solver.

As long as the PBEM is not really supported I will not buy or play the game. And I read, that the game still has some problems (savebugs?) if/when we are using scenarios/mods. This might very well hit us during a game - and I do not want to play ½ a year just to find out, that suddenly the game is over-finish-crapped.

	29-01-2001 00:51									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Franses and Birdman have very good points. We have to be careful about endorsing a move to CTPII even if there were NO bugs. All CTPII PBEM games would have to be NEW games. So then we would have a split of an already small community, as Franses correctly points out.

What are the REAL benefits of CTPII? It has "borders" now (big deal); there is better graphics (hmmmm...); prettier music (give me a break); a Governor to help (well if he is as stupid as the one that now controls which tiles to work, forget it!); you can "retreat" during combat (not in PBEM you can't). Not that we care, but the A/I actually got WORSE. And you CAN'T control which tiles your workers work on (that's left for the all-wise a/i governor... duh).

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm serious. I really want to buy the game, but I would like someone to convince me that it's not a waste of time and money.

	29-01-2001 02:24									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've had CTPII for a few weeks now. I've started a few games, the latest is the first, I've enjoyed, and on impossible level. I'm not winning but I’m a very strong second.

…and I Know I'm not that good.

It’s not just the AI, which is easy. I've been pushing hard on the military front but so far none of my cities have rioted. I could build a shrine, I could build a theatre but I don't need too. It's a crying shame. There are good ideas in the game, but overall it doesn’t work.

PBEM is all about taking care each turn; we don’t need Mayors or anything like that.

In a none AI game borders are arranged between the players.

Having said all that I will play, If you can make the PBEM patch work and maybe some good mods will come.

Cheers
Frazer

	29-01-2001 03:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

In my opinion Quinns, dont buy the game. I'm not sure what it is about Civilization you like, but for me it was the whole convept of "building" an entire nation. This was the case all the way back to the Original Sid Meir's Civilization. I had that same feeling of building something in CTP 1, but unfortunately in CTP2, I just didn't get teh feeling like I was creating anything. It was a rather tedious and boring military conquest game. It maybe different with human players and all, but the mayors took care of everything. I know. I know, I could take the mayor off and assign my own build queue, but the way I oculdn't assign my workers on individual tiles just put me off. I just left the cities to do what they did. Only time I took over control was when I wanted a specific unit built.

Honestly, I love the concepts that they introduced into CTP2, but I wish they had left it more like CTP1. They shouldn't have messed with the things they got right in the first place.

I figure it would be a lot of fun playing over PBEM, but I dont think I will enjoy it any more than I would enjoy CTP1. Besides that I have stopped joining anymore games of any sort. No time you know. :-/

	29-01-2001 04:47									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Solver, CTP2 just don't have the "feel" C:CTP had when it was released.
It has some potential features but it has some annoying new design elements and some important features missing.

It is a great minus that you can't place the workers where you want to. The message tab is horrible. I am sure that some important messages are being "passed".
Tha entire interface is messed up. It's far more time-consuming to manage your cities.
The graphics quality remains the same with C:CTP. Just great .

Some of the goods things are the national borders and the cities borders that are getting biger as the city grows, the ability to name each unit and a stuck of them.

The point is that if you weigh the possitive and the negative elements you have a mediocre game and nothing more.

Something like Test of Time was for Civilization 2.
The only difference is that Test of Time wasn't an entirely new edition where CTP2 is.

I remember somewhere where Activision was thinking on releasing a DVD edition of C:CTP with extra features and units. Maybe they put some more extra and released CTP2.

If the modifiers could interfere in the interface, add some missing features and fix the bugs then we could talk about moving to CTP2.

Anyway I personaly am interested on joining a CTP2 PBEM game. If it's gonna be the first one I would like to participate . But only one!

[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited January 28, 2001).]

	29-01-2001 06:42									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've tried the changes suggested by Mr Ogre, and played about 70 turns of hotseta against myself. No crashes yet, but diplomacy with human players is not possible, so that's one problem with it.



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phoenixcager
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of the the Civilization Gaming Network. Visit the CGN Forums

	29-01-2001 06:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What? Phoenixcager does that mean you can't gift or exchange advances and/or gold with another human?? If that's true, I don't think there is any way we can migrate over to CTP2 PBEM. "Advance" trading is too great a part of the game, I believe.

	29-01-2001 07:48									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, I haven't tried exchanging advances (no embassies yet), but I tried it with maps. It works for Ai-players, but not humans.

I also tried offering a cease-fire, and that didn't work either. It just goes back to the original diplomacy screen.

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phoenixcager
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of the the Civilization Gaming Network. Visit the CGN Forums

	29-01-2001 14:52									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, not able to exchange maps is enough for me not to play a CTP2 PBEM game .

When a better solution is available then we can talk about it.

	29-01-2001 21:51									#12
	Put an end to popups!

I feel I should surrender here.
Actually, I have bought CtP II for single player, and I yet like spending some time sitiing there at single player, instead of spending motnhs and months in PBEM. Such a combination. But Quinns, buy the game !
I don't know, but for some reasons I just enjoy CtP II more, even though some changes are bad. Of course, I loved the original Civ by MicroProse, and I feel it's impossible now to make something like that, but CtP II single player environment is quite a good one.
I don't feel quite comfortable here in PBEM idea, and yes, Activision haven't made it "oficially". But, there is such a thing.
As for the diplomacy problems, I am almost sure that modiying one of the game files here will again do the job with no problems.
Next, I cannot and don't want to speak about the problem about AI being too easy, as for me I haven't beaten Deity at CtP I, and haven't played Impossible at CtP II.
So, all in all, I fear I have to surrender, unless I find a way to fix the diplomacy.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	31-01-2001 04:47									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This was easy everything everyone said was true, lol.
Franses yes you can play both on the same computer.
I like a few others was somewhat disapointed. I too prefer the Civilization and CTP more than CTPII for similar reasons. But all in all it was more fun than risk, would I play PBEM hummm it would get rather mundain I think, but heck I would try it to see.

	01-02-2001 08:02									#14
	Suffering from ads?

Well, if there's anyone who doesn't mind those problems, berXpert & myself wouldn't mind setting up a game. It will probably be a more like a wargame, since there's no diplomacy.

Post at:
http://www.civgaming.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/000022.html


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phoenixcager
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of the the Civilization Gaming Network. Visit the CGN Forums
[This message has been edited by phoenixcager (edited January 31, 2001).]