01-09-2002 16:34									#1
	First uses of paid labor (money-rushing) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Fellow Apolytonians,
With the imminent government switch to Monarchy, our nation is entering a stage where paid labor is made possible and projects can be rushed with the investment of money. Currently we have 487 gold in our coffers and our income is rapidly growing.
Therefore, I suggest that once we switch to Monarchy we hurry temples in the towns of Chiquita and Marseilles and a spearman in the completely defenseless Cherbourg and Rouen, and afterwards rush spearmen in Here It Is and Marseilles so that the swordsmen currently garrisoning those towns can go where they're needed more (the German front for instance).
Also, it would be a good idea to rush the walls in Napoleton and Seeberg if we spot German units approaching and we find that we're not prepared to defend those towns yet.
Note: it's important that before we rush a building or a unit we build at least one shield of it. Otherwise the price we'll have to pay for rushing will be double.

What do you think? Is money-hurrying justified in all the abovementioned cases, some of them or none? Are there are other buildings or units you think we should money-hurry?

	01-09-2002 17:04									#2
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hi ,

, rushing the temples yes , the walls , ......

we should use the money for something like temples , cathedrals , stuff like that , ....

we should save some for later , ....
or for when there is a national emergency , ...

, we could just wait until we have a 1000 gold , and then use what ever comes above it , ...

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 17:16									#3
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Panag, I said rush the walls only if an enemy unit is one tile away from one of our towns and we realize there's no way we can get our own units there in time to save the town. In such a case, rushing a wall is much better than losing the town.

	01-09-2002 17:38									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Panag, I said rush the walls only if an enemy unit is one tile away from one of our towns and we realize there's no way we can get our own units there in time to save the town. In such a case, rushing a wall is much better than losing the town.

hi ,

okay , but rushing walls for one enemy unit , ....

is it not correct that ones our cities have a certain size the walls are useless , ...?

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 17:49									#5
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Save enough so that when we can upgrade to pike, we can do so. Otherwise, sounds OK to me.

	01-09-2002 17:52									#6
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NO rushing walls. Their a waste of shields anyway and I'm hoping we can make peace before those cities finish them so they can be swithched to something usefull.

	01-09-2002 17:54									#7
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb NO rushing walls. Their a waste of shields anyway and I'm hoping we can make peace before those cities finish them so they can be swithched to something usefull.

hi ,



cathedral would be intresting , ...

or an extra unit , or worker , ...

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 18:10									#8
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You can accomplish the same effect of walls by allowing the city to grow. Both Seeburg and Napoleton have grassland. So building temples and growing the pop equals building walls.

In the Civ3 rule system walls are useless unless you have a city that CANNOT ever grow past size 1.

Barracks will give a bonus to the units built there and doesn't become useless once the city grows.

	01-09-2002 18:15									#9
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Ghengis has a good point. Anyway, the final decision lies in the hands of the city planners. If they see enemy swordsmen approaching and they think a wall will help then they'll rush it.
A wall is no biggie. It only costs 4 * number of shields left to produce (or 160 if we haven't started production yet, since the price goes double in such a case). Of course it's best to avoid unnecessary costs when possible, but sometimes we might wanna make that investment in order to have better chances of keeping a town.
Anyway, there's no point in debating about this now anyway. The Germans haven't made any aggressive moves yet other than moving two archers out of Munich and into our territory, which we can handle perfectly well without walls.

	01-09-2002 18:18									#10
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Walls are stupid and pointless.

	01-09-2002 18:20									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Ghengis has a good point. Anyway, the final decision lies in the hands of the city planners. If they see enemy swordsmen approaching and they think a wall will help then they'll rush it. A wall is no biggie. It only costs 4 * number of shields left to produce (or 160 if we haven't started production yet, since the price goes double in such a case). Of course it's best to avoid unnecessary costs when possible, but sometimes we might wanna make that investment in order to have better chances of keeping a town. Anyway, there's no point in debating about this now anyway. The Germans haven't made any aggressive moves yet other than moving two archers out of Munich and into our territory, which we can handle perfectly well without walls.

hi ,

we better get some workers and units , ...

then we should start to build , ....

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 18:26									#12
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quote: we better get some workers and units

Wow! What an original idea!

Panag, DUH!

	01-09-2002 18:27									#13
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Walls are cheep and fast to build. With monarchy, I would rather switch to barricks and rush them if necessary.

Walls work when the city is size 6 and under. Larger cities they become worthless. How long will it take to clear the jungle and allow enough grasslands become availabe to let these cities grow? Particularly when just a single enemy warrior can pillage any improvements and can capture all our workers.

Walls do have a purpose. Just a limited one. I would much prefer to use the efforts and energies in another more long term and usefull project. I would also like to keep our cities from the armies that are not yet visable, but which surely must be on their way.

	01-09-2002 18:28									#14
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I'd rather rush a spearman or pikeman. They cost less.

	01-09-2002 18:30									#15
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Skywalker, just because you are not clever enough to appreciate Panag's genius and originality it doesn't mean you can make fun of him!

	01-09-2002 18:35									#16
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Wow! What an original idea! Panag, DUH!

hi ,

hey Sky , it was meant that they are more intresting then walls , ....

and it was more like the casting of a vote in a poll , ...

say , imagine every time people started to scream when you came up with silly ideas , .....



have a nice day

	01-09-2002 18:36									#17
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Walls
50% bonus until city reaches size 6
ONLY works in one tile and one city

Barracks
Gives unit extra hitpoint
Allows injured unit to COMPLETELY heal before next turn
NEVER expires.
Improved units can move to mountains where they get a 100% bonus (double that of walls)

I think barracks are the better option to defend the areas mentioned. Fortify units in the mountains and extend our viewing area.

	01-09-2002 18:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Walls 50% bonus until city reaches size 6 ONLY works in one tile and one city Barracks Gives unit extra hitpoint Allows injured unit to COMPLETELY heal before next turn NEVER expires. Improved units can move to mountains where they get a 100% bonus (double that of walls) I think barracks are the better option to defend the areas mentioned. Fortify units in the mountains and extend our viewing area.

hi ,

at last , some-one else who can see it , ...

we could use the a barracks in each city , so that we get vet units , .... Uber was asking for this since a long time , .....

and if we have barracks we should get to build something with culture , ....

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 19:03									#19
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Ghengis: you convinced me. No rushing walls then.

	01-09-2002 20:43									#20
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Please don't build barracks everywhere! It'll be time-consuming, and they cost 1 gpt each.

Instead, build veteran units in a limited number of cities.

Do not invest in Cherbourg. It'll never grow past 1 non-corrupted shield for a while. Instead, use it as 1 gpt income and later give it away to a civ we want to be friends with.

	01-09-2002 21:08									#21
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I agree with everything in the first post, with two two thoughts:

Walls (or barracks, depending on which is thought to be more useful) should only be rushed if the SMC believes that there is a reasonable chance we'll loose the city without them.

and

We do not do all of this at once, keeping at least 100+ gold in our coffers; Should we be prepared to sue for peace earlier than we might predict, we may need some money for any deals, and it's always smart to keep a little in reserve anyway.

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 21:37									#22
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AdaMada - A Pikeman or Spearman would provide more defence and cost less.

	01-09-2002 21:53									#23
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Skywalker,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I only wanted walls or barracks. Basically, if we're about to loose a city we should rush any defensive item -- whatever the SMC/citizens feel will help the most. (I won't pretend that I'm any good at Military Planning, and will as such leave it to others to figure out).

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 22:12									#24
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My point is that we never need to rush Walls, because we can rush better things for less.

	01-09-2002 22:24									#25
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Rushing a barracks to save a city is a bad idea. We should place our barracks in strategic locations, not necessarily in cities that are under threat. Also, we can't move the barracks later and they'll cost us 1 gpt all throughout the game unless we sell them.
On the other hand, a pikeman (or whatever garrison unit we can build, depending on our progress through the technology tree) is a much better choice: it can move around to where it's needed. It does cost 1 gpt too (unless we're within our free support limit if we're under Monarchy or Communism) but it often provides better defense than a barracks and at a cheaper price.
Btw, if we spot an attacker ahead (we should really put some warriors on those mountains to serve as scouts and early warning stations) we can produce a veteran pikeman in a city that has barracks and then transport him quickly using our roads system to the threatened city.

	01-09-2002 22:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Rushing a barracks to save a city is a bad idea. We should place our barracks in strategic locations, not necessarily in cities that are under threat. Also, we can't move the barracks later and they'll cost us 1 gpt all throughout the game unless we sell them. On the other hand, a pikeman (or whatever garrison unit we can build, depending on our progress through the technology tree) is a much better choice: it can move around to where it's needed. It does cost 1 gpt too (unless we're within our free support limit if we're under Monarchy or Communism) but it often provides better defense than a barracks and at a cheaper price. Btw, if we spot an attacker ahead (we should really put some warriors on those mountains to serve as scouts and early warning stations) we can produce a veteran pikeman in a city that has barracks and then transport him quickly using our roads system to the threatened city.

hi ,

, that famous 1 gpt is worth it every bit , ...
not only to build a unit , but also to heal them , ....

what we should do is to make sure that all our cities grow , so work the terrain , and we need a mobile force , ... in real live its the same , be mobile , or die like a sitting duck , ... we should have a couple places that build ones a building , then a unit , a building , a unit , and so on , ....

the roads are indeed important , ... not only for money , but also to move the troops , ...

say , good post Shiber

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 22:56									#27
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Ok. So, if we need to rush emergency defense, it should be in the form of units. That makes sense.

Again, I really try to avoid making too many comments about micromanagement of tactics, since I'm just not good at military tactics on a small-scale .

As for Barracks, I agree that they should be in strategic locations, but I also think they should be built on boarder towns that are under attack a lot. Not in emergency situations, but just as reinforcements -- that way, we'll have to replenish their garrisons much less frequently.

-- adaMada

EDIT: The double-name bug strikes again!

	02-09-2002 00:45									#28
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I don't think rushing defensive units is that good an idea as they will only be regulars.

Instead I agree with Shiber about the idea of haveing a few cities with barracks which produce all of our defensive units. Although ATM this would mean our 4 core cities which would be better building other things.

	02-09-2002 00:56									#29
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I don't think rushing defensive units is that good an idea as they will only be regulars. Instead I agree with Shiber about the idea of haveing a few cities with barracks which produce all of our defensive units. Although ATM this would mean our 4 core cities which would be better building other things.

hi ,

that is why each city should build barracks , then they should build a unit , then a building , then a unit , then a building , ...

in case of war we or problems around the corner , we can start to build units everywhere , ...

what we need before we do that is 10 workers more , and start to grow , ...

have a nice day

	02-09-2002 01:10									#30
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