01-09-2002 17:09									#1
	Another mapwhoring project? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's that time again! In fact, this is the best time to do another mapwhoring project, now that we've got a lot of new map information (after thoroughly "exploring" eastern France, now western Apolytonia ) and that we're about to set sail to Uber Island (I think there's a concensus not to reveal the location of Uber Isle until we have a strong hold of the island).
I will bring before you all the information I collected and then present my plan:

Nations without money that are willing to sell their WM for our TM: Aztecs, Iroquois, France, Russia, Babylon. Nations without money that are willing to sell their WM for our WM: England.
Nations that are willing to pay for our WM: Rome - 5g + WM, Greece - 6g + WM, America - 10g + WM.
I'm afraid we can't do business with Germany and Persia because we're still at war. I would have waited until we've made peace with those nations to see what they can offer us but since we're about to begin exploration and colonization of Uber Isle and we don't want to reveal that information, we have to act now.
Now for my plan:

Sell Aztecs our TM for their WM.
Sell Iroquois our TM for their WM.
Sell France our TM for their WM.
Sell Russia our TM for their WM.
Sell Babylon our TM for their WM.
Sell England our WM for their WM (check if they might settle for just our TM).
Sell Rome our WM for as much as possible.
Sell Greece our WM for as much as possible.
Sell America our WM for as much as possible.
Estimated revenues: 24 - 28 gold.

Yes, I know that's not as good as the last mapwhoring project (which earned us more than 100 gold for just trading maps! ) but it's the best we can do right now.

Please share your thoughts and ideas.

	01-09-2002 17:14									#2
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We need to do this now because once we are on Uber Isle we can not reveal our map.

	01-09-2002 17:28									#3
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Good idea. As the turn is about to end, do you suggest we do this prior to or after this turn....

Does that make sence?

	01-09-2002 17:35									#4
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Interesting question GodKing.
I say do this next turn (some of the nations that are currently broke will have some money to pay for our maps next turn), but before we start moving the galleys.

	01-09-2002 17:53									#5
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I concure. It would be best if some more money was involved (comming our way of course).

	01-09-2002 18:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Good idea. As the turn is about to end, do you suggest we do this prior to or after this turn.... Does that make sence?

hi ,

indeed , otherwise its going to be a crowded place , ...

instead , ones we are there , we should get their WM , true war , or true trade , ...

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 18:32									#7
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As soon as the galley sets out, we can't do it.

	01-09-2002 19:15									#8
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I's say do it next turn.
Aggie

	01-09-2002 20:53									#9
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Have we seen Uber Isle yet?

If not, let's do it.

If so, then let's not .

I wish I had something long and brillent to say here, but my stance is that simple -- money = good. Others knowing about Uber Isle = worse.

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 21:37									#10
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I think it doesn't matter if we reveal UberIsle first or not. The AI "knows" the map beforehand, anyway. The fact that they are willing to trade for maps at all is built-in.

	01-09-2002 21:39									#11
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They won't settle until they have seen it on their map, even if they "know" about it. This is also built in.

	01-09-2002 21:51									#12
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No. We cannot (and will not) be trading our World Map after Uber Isle.

As skywalker said, the AI is programmed to not be able to settle anyplace they don't know about -- if we trade our WM and they see it, however, they'll rush to try and colonize it if they're able. Should it prove to be a nice piece of land, we may well find ourselves sharing it because we wanted a few more gold. Also, if any of the other Civs are located there (not likely, but possible) we can make a fourtine trading between the two continents -- by even allowing the AI to know about Uber Isle before we're done with it may lead to them finding the other Civ.

Having said all of that , we can still do TM trades until we have a city on Uber Isle...

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 22:33									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The idea is to conduct the project next turn (so the nations that are currently broke will have a chance to gain some money) but before we move our galleys so we don't reveal the existence of Uber Isle.

	01-09-2002 22:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster I think it doesn't matter if we reveal UberIsle first or not. The AI "knows" the map beforehand, anyway. The fact that they are willing to trade for maps at all is built-in.

hi ,

the AI may know the map , but he does not know where the cities are , ..... or the roads , ....

that is why we should not give the map , ..... (!)

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 22:48									#15
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Ok.

Then let's do it .

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 23:01									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , the AI may know the map , but he does not know where the cities are , ..... or the roads , .... that is why we should not give the map , ..... (!) have a nice day

hi ,

this is also the reason the AI asks for it , ....

and sometimes gets a bit upset over it , ....

we should from now on say a no when they ask for it , and to stay on good terms , give them 1 gold , .....

problem solved

very soon we shall have our aircraft carrier in front of the coast , ......

lets hope we can buidt a couple large cities there

have a nice day

	01-09-2002 23:29									#17
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , the AI may know the map , but he does not know where the cities are , ..... or the roads , .... that is why we should not give the map , ..... (!) have a nice day

Actually, just to clarify, it's my understanding that the AI knows everything about the map -- cities, roads, units -- everything. The AI has been programmed, however, to A) Pay for maps, and B) to not settle anywhere that it hasn't "seen" so that the advantage would only be military.

-- adaMada

	01-09-2002 23:37									#18
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Actually, just to clarify, it's my understanding that the AI knows everything about the map -- cities, roads, units -- everything. The AI has been programmed, however, to A) Pay for maps, and B) to not settle anywhere that it hasn't "seen" so that the advantage would only be military. -- adaMada

hi ,

nope , the AI knows the map as you see in the editor , ... with or without the resources is unsure , but bet your money on yes , ....

it was talked about a while ago , the AI could see only the roads that where given to it , by selling the map , ...

, a clear answer would be great here , ...

have a nice day

	02-09-2002 02:59									#19
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We'll go through with this plan next turn BEFORE moving our ships.

--Togas

	02-09-2002 03:43									#20
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That's great to hear.

	02-09-2002 04:26									#21
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Okay . I guess it's official now .

-- adaMada

	02-09-2002 16:07									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Togas We'll go through with this plan next turn BEFORE moving our ships. --Togas

THIS turn before ending or next turn before moving?

	02-09-2002 16:10									#23
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Actually, the AI knows the GEOGRAPHICAL and CULTURAL map only. Basically, if you want to know exactly what the AI knows, edit fogofwar.pcx so that it is all purple/pink/whatever that color is and open a save game. The shroud is just a graphic on top of the map.

	02-09-2002 16:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt THIS turn before ending or next turn before moving?

I think he supports my proposal (next turn, before we start moving the empty galley and reveal a portion of Uber Isle).

	02-09-2002 21:00									#25
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I am fine with this proposal, as long as it doesn't give away Uber.

	02-09-2002 21:11									#26
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Just remember that the Settler will expire its movement points moving onto a Galley.

	02-09-2002 21:16									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Next turn we'll move one galley to tile C (after selling the maps of course, because that galley will be able to actually see the coast line of Uber Isle from tile C) and move the other into Apolytonia to grab the settler and then back to tile A, or move the settler out of Apolytonia and into tile A to board the galley (yes, it's possible). Things should be okay then (we'll have a settler with a movement point for phase two: the settler hop).

	06-09-2002 21:22									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Shiber Next turn we'll move one galley to tile C (after selling the maps of course, because that galley will be able to actually see the coast line of Uber Isle from tile C) and move the other into Apolytonia to grab the settler and then back to tile A, or move the settler out of Apolytonia and into tile A to board the galley (yes, it's possible). Things should be okay then (we'll have a settler with a movement point for phase two: the settler hop).

hi ,

sounds good , now , we need to get more units there , ...

have a nice day