30-01-2001 00:25									#1
	Don't install unless you know what you are doing Support Apolyton

Now - this is enough!

Several games are delayed - players claims that their ISP are responsible or that their PC has broken down.

Is so, you have to do one of two (or both):

Get a reliable ISP (and get a second e-mail as emergency fx. a hotmail or yahoo account for use when your ISP mail is down).

Don't install and/or uninstall programs, demos, shareware, freeware UNLESS YOU ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU ACTUALLY ARE DOING.

Personally I have not been "forced" to reinstall CTP nor did I have any problems with the game during the last year or so.

And I do make changes from time to time.

	30-01-2001 04:29									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Are you telling us that you have a stable operating system that you do not have to reinstall for a YEAR?
Sorry, birdie, I do not believe you on this one without proof.

My position is that a game does not have to be delayed because a player has connection or PC problems. If they have they should find a sub. If not, they are nexted after 24 hours. This rule should be applied strictly unless the player notifies the other players, (I believe this must be possible even if you do not have access yourself. There are friends, neighbours, Internet cafe's etc.), is known to take the games he plays in seriously (a difficult one but we all know who they are) and can not find a sub to play for him.

Franses

	30-01-2001 04:38									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

...for how could anything else in the world be MORE important than Call to Power PBEM!!

	30-01-2001 04:52									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

That's not my point, quinns. Read again

	30-01-2001 05:45									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I understood your point just perfectly, Franses. And I agree with taking the 24 hour rule seriously.

You missed my point I believe... I'm just trying to shed a little humor on what sounds like "Direct Orders" from the TheBirdMan and Franses. Most people are pretty good and are "honest" when they say they have a problem. In addition, they almost always move in a direction to fix their problem as fast as they can. There are a few who people who don't care, but that's what the forced "next turn" rule is for.

My point is that there are sometimes more pressing issues in this world than CTP (though I can't imagine what that could be ). I know that you both know that. Lighten up gentlemen, it's just a game!

	30-01-2001 09:57									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I had nobody special in mind - I was just sitting in front of my pc - wondering where "The good old days" way back in november 2000 had gone

In those days I recieved 3-4 turns a day. Now-a-days I'm lucky if I get 2

Therefore I loaded my old shotgun - closed my eyes - and fired If I hit anyone - that would be fine. If not, well nothing to do about that.....

And Franses: As for the proof - I'll mail a paint-file to you

	30-01-2001 13:55									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I believe we all agree. I did not mean that CTP is everything in the world (I spent a couple of hours thinking about what is more important and I did find some things ). I personally do not mind if someone is out of the game for a week or so. I am sure it will happen to me also one day. I even do not care that some people are notorious game delayers. What I do care about is that the serious players do not find a working solution to this which means that games are "gone for many weeks" without anyone knowing where the game is. Even in games that start of with strict rules that everyone agrees upon at the start, the rules are not applied most of the time. That is what I am trying to change A BIT and I am willing to invest time into it. If that is out of line with most of the players that I am playing with at the time than I would like to know because I am not interested in playing games that take a month to play one turn. In that case I will ask to be replaced, try to find a small group of people that feels like me and if I do not succeed leave this fine community without any hard feelings to anyone. I then just do not belong here.

One final thing to avoid a likely misunderstanding. Although it may seem otherwise, I am NOT in favor of rigorously applying rules. My experience however is that if you do not start out that way, rules are not applied at all.

Awaiting curiously the reactions of others,

Franses

	30-01-2001 20:30									#8
	Support Apolyton

Sorry Franses. I didn't mean to cause you to feel that way. The general rule is that the "Enforcer" is always the "Game Starter". If you start a game you automatically become the bad guy. You must "tell" the preceeding player to "next turn" the delinquent player, if it comes to that. The game starter invited that person and the game starter can eject that person. It is an unwritten law, I believe.

Quinns

	30-01-2001 23:19									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

This unwritten law sounds good quinns and .... you do not have to feel sorry. I don't mind feeling "that way". I lived long enough to get used to my feelings Thank you for your response. I always appreciate your point of view.

I did receive the paint file from Birdman. I want to state here that I believe him now and am impressed.
[This message has been edited by Franses (edited January 30, 2001).]

	31-01-2001 03:50									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Agree with all opinions (even the contradictory ones )

I just want to know what computer Birdman has got. And what OS? I've had "legitamite" games crash my system, memory failures, general windows .uck ups, ISP unreliability... the works. And I've been in the industry since moses was a kid (ie I know what I'm doing). Linux is also a no-go for CTP PBEM, 'cause of the bug.

so how do you do it?

	31-01-2001 03:53									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just one thing to add to this.

While the game starter may be the ultimate enforcer (although I did not anticipate this responsibility when starting DC). If a 24-hour rule is in place, it has to be the responsibility of each player to make sure each turn they play is then played and sent on to the next player within the time limit. As ultimately, this player is the only person in a position to do anything about the delay. If players are waiting to be told to enforce the rule by the game starter or whoever else, this wastes a lot of time.

For whatever reason most players may miss the occasional turn. If the rule was properly enforced, the delay would be less and there would be no need for blame. I imagine constantly missing your turn would cause a considerable (penalty) disadvantage.

In extreme circumstances, the game starter could then warn and exclude the worst cases.

	31-01-2001 03:56									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I dont know about you BirdMan, but I've been struggling with CTP for a long time now. I've re installed it several times... hell I've re-installed Win2000 several times just FOR ctp. Its no good. I dont see a pattern, I dont see anything!!!

I have been considering purchasing a Linux version of the CTP from Loki. But frankly the idea of shelling out more money on this game which is sorta on the brink of becoming outdated is not appealing to me.

I agree with you in one aspect though, regardless of an ISP/comp problems you have to try and get the turns out as fast as possible. Thats why I mostly make the 24 hour deadline...

	31-01-2001 05:11									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Fraze, I agree completely with you. In general it should be the responsibility of the player. The game starter however should make sure that every player takes its responsibility. But ... if the game starter does not take his responsibility, everything falls apart so in my opinion he is the first to blame.

	31-01-2001 05:16									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hey people

The most reliable thing on my machine is CTP lol.
Generally i can go months without a major head ache if I do get one i will do three things, Repair the error i just did
Run my registry backup, even if this means cut and paste it, as a last resort.
Then all else fails I will rename win.com to win.dog and rerun the windows setup resulting in all the files and folders being intact.
If I am going to test new programs i will back up the registry first then run it test it and dump it if need be. Generally this has caused few head aches.
But most often when I am ready to reformat my hd for the clean start I will spend several weeks testing new programs for stability as if it screws up bad i am reformaing anyway, heh.
Just thought I would share that
I might suggest for ongonig hick-ups with opereating systems that you post them in the "helps" It is amazing how often these things are similar to other users problems, and solutions might be a typo away heh.

	02-02-2001 00:23									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As most games are for Windows - then this pc was a Win98 (upgraded to WinME 14 days ago or so - everything works as it should). It had been on duty since the summer of 1999 (ask Franses if you do not believe).

I WILL NOT - NOT - upgrade a pc to a NT Workstation or similar (WIN2000). Not yet. That OS (OperatingSystem) is for serious workstations only.

My pc (conquered by my beloved wife and our children 1 year ago): AMD pentium II 400 MHz, 32 Mbyte ram (upgraded to 96 december 2000), 10 Gbyte HD, Matsonic motherbord S6210 (as far as I remember), cheap display adaptor.

Normal drivers - only upgraded to latest version

A lot of applications - even a version of a product that was pulled back years ago course it was too good (Virtual CD, plays AOE, Red Alert and more without having the CD in place - a wonderfull feature when you couldn't find the cd or wanted to hear music instead).
I did never need a crack as backup


[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 01, 2001).]

	02-02-2001 01:11									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

1,5 years without problems!?!?
Hard to believe it!!!

AMD Pentium II? I didn't knew that AMD had released a CPU under the brand name Pentium II

Windows 2000 are good (not perfect) but with 96MB is out of the question! Plus that you can't play many games there .

	02-02-2001 03:49									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

I have win2000 on my system because I do use it mostly for development and have several services running on it. The only game I ever play on it regularly is CTP (for PBEM). Once in a while I play AOE 2 with my friends over my LAN. AOE 2 gives me no problems, I also tried Quake 3 and had no problems. I've uninstalled it since I dont get the time to play it. CTP is killing me.. and unfortunately its also the game I play the most. .. anyway.. I'll be reinstalling win2000 again and hopefully CTP will start behaving itself again..

	02-02-2001 04:19									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

King Thor

What exactly is happening?

	02-02-2001 09:46									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Of course you have right Keygen - but it was manufactured in the same "old" days as Intel was making their processor.

One reason more to choose an AMD. I had to pay myself - and it is sometime costly to be religious.