02-09-2002 00:42									#1
	Great leader poll Put an end to popups!

This is a poll to go along with my Great Leaders thread... I am curious if my suspicions are correct and this poll will help--please direct any discusson to my Great Leaders thread...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=60699

	02-09-2002 01:28									#2
	Re: Great leader poll Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by gnome This is a poll to go along with my Great Leaders thread... I am curious if my suspicions are correct and this poll will help--please direct any discusson to my Great Leaders thread... http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=60699

How about a fifth choice: NONE!!!

	02-09-2002 01:31									#3
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Just choose "Almost never"... I consider them equivalent for what I'm trying to find out.

	02-09-2002 01:43									#4
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quote: Originally posted by gnome Just choose "Almost never"... I consider them equivalent for what I'm trying to find out.

Perhaps I should of made myself clear (sorry). I mean NONE as in "Never ever since I bought the game last December!"

No joke, I never ever got a leader. I don't goto war that much, but when I do I raze and kill everyone. I always play as Rome to.

So I never rushed a wonder, never built an army nor the wonders that go with it. Hell, I built more Iron Works then leaders!

	02-09-2002 01:49									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Perhaps I should of made myself clear (sorry). I mean NONE as in "Never ever since I bought the game last December!" No joke, I never ever got a leader. I don't goto war that much, but when I do I raze and kill everyone. I always play as Rome to. So I never rushed a wonder, never built an army nor the wonders that go with it. Hell, I built more Iron Works then leaders!

Oh, that's exactly what I thought you meant. I just don't want to split up the "nones" and the "hardly evers". I'd change the text if it let me

Rock the vote!

	02-09-2002 06:12									#6
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I usually get more than one a game. It helps to plays as the germans, Panzers + Militeristic trait is a big help.

	02-09-2002 06:33									#7
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Its very rare that I get a single Great Leader if I play as a non-Militaristic civ. However, as a militaristic one, since I tend to be more aggressive, the chances are far greater, though I hardly get as many as I want.

	02-09-2002 09:12									#8
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I've had eight in my last game alone ( and seven in the game before that ) but then again I spent most of that game ( & previous ) waging war against my AI opponents, 'tis the only way to keep up on Emperor I find.

Most satisfying thing about the game was when the AI nuked my best city, I returned the favour with five nukes.

	02-09-2002 15:45									#9
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Oh I get some of them all the time usually two or three. Of course I'm more or less a warmonger and war is a constant factor in my politics (most of the time I'm at war with at least one civ). So battling all the time gives you a fair chance of getting three of these guys during a game.

	02-09-2002 16:08									#10
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I never play as a militaristic civ and also rarely go to war, so I don't see many GL's in my games.
However, even when I'm not militaristic but I have I strong army and go to conquer (like in my last game with the Immortals) I get at least one GL.

So, from the poll's point of view: yes, usually I get at least one in every game when I am militarily quite active.

However, I've never obtained a GL defending, only attacking. Anybody?

	02-09-2002 16:24									#11
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Yes, I got a GL once when defending. It was up against a large number of AI units. So it was upgrading from regular, veteran and elite. And then I got a GL!

Only to loose it again when that unit finally looses against that horde of AI units....

	02-09-2002 16:25									#12
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But that was on 1.16f I think....

	02-09-2002 20:11									#13
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I just started playing a game as Chinese (I usually play Babylon), I've gotten three so far (start modern age).

	02-09-2002 20:21									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Perhaps I should of made myself clear (sorry). I mean NONE as in "Never ever since I bought the game last December!" No joke, I never ever got a leader. I don't goto war that much, but when I do I raze and kill everyone. I always play as Rome to. So I never rushed a wonder, never built an army nor the wonders that go with it. Hell, I built more Iron Works then leaders!

You are playing Civ3, I hope and not civ2. Just an honest mistaike to maike


Usually 3-4 until modern (where I usually end the game)
The most I had was 11 or 12 in a standard game (militaristic). Should I mention I won that game

	02-09-2002 21:09									#15
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I had had GL from defenders. In current (nearly over) I have had 47 leaders as Rome at 129f. Been at war since first contact. Been at war with allfor last 4000 years.

	02-09-2002 21:38									#16
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Briggs Theory:

Leaders are proportonial to the warmongering index of the player

	02-09-2002 22:18									#17
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Don't know what to vote. Some games, I've gotten none, due to limited warring. Pretty often, I get one. But then again, in some games, I can get as much as 6 of them... the game I had an army of nearly 500 units, I got 1.

	02-09-2002 23:46									#18
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I usually have a dozen leaders in every game.

	03-09-2002 03:33									#19
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I usually get at least one invery game; however, I've had a couple games where my elites produced 5 - 6 GLs.

	03-09-2002 03:48									#20
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My record for GLs in one game is 17.

	03-09-2002 04:34									#21
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Some games I can get one per turn while at war, others I will never see one. It really depends on how I am playing, how well I am playing, how well my units are holding up (can I keep blitzing or am I getting my butt kicked,) etc. And then there are those games where I just get pimped every time out So I choose #2, #3 and #4 and a few you didn't include. It's a random thing - "sometimes you get the bull, sometimes you get the horns."

	03-09-2002 04:43									#22
	Put an end to popups!

In my game as Germany, it's the first century AD and I already have two: Barbarossa and Horsa.

	03-09-2002 19:03									#23
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 You are playing Civ3, I hope and not civ2. Just an honest mistaike to maike Usually 3-4 until modern (where I usually end the game) The most I had was 11 or 12 in a standard game (militaristic). Should I mention I won that game

Yes, I am playing Civ3. I don't have Civ2.


Panag suggested I mod a game where I start off with one, but I want to be surprised. I want an Xmas present anyway.

	03-09-2002 19:35									#24
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I usually get more than 1 when warmongering with a militaristic civ. My record is 12 (standard map).

I've had games where it just doesn't go my way. In order to take full advantage of the militaristic trait, I want more than 2 neighbors so I have several different targets. Less than 2 presents a real problem - not enough things to kill to reliably generate a GL.

-Arrian

	03-09-2002 19:41									#25
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Recently I had a game where despite enough warmongering (I conquered the world) and substantial AI resistance (Monarch), I got none. Later I decided that this depended on the fact that I had civilization specific ablities and all victory conditions turned off, but I have no clue whether that is true or superstition.

	03-09-2002 19:58									#26
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im playing a game as germany now, huge earth map,16 civs.
i avoided war most of the game but now that the panzers have arrived ive been fighting non-stop. in 4 turns of war i have had 6 GL's and now have many elite panzers waiting for there shot.

be sure to baby your elite units if you want leaders, if i lose one hit point they go home to rest instead of blitz attacking to the death.( im starting to build factories in small towns with leaders just to use them up)

i have had games where i didnt see one leader but never as a militaristic civ, i always get a few

	03-09-2002 20:39									#27
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A looong time ago, I made GL-hunting one of the core aspects of my strategies.

I'll often go to war with only this in mind, foregoing opportunities to actually destroy the enemy's production capacity, just so I have new (preferably regular) enemy units to chomp on.

Even then, GLs come and go in unpredictable streaks. In Banana Isle, none until Tanks. IN AU 105, none until around 100AD, and then they just kept coming.

Always at least one, and at peak somewhere in the teens.

	09-09-2002 04:36									#28
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Thanks everyone for your input. These results are different than what I expected after hearing anecdotal posts... it seems that most people can get GL's without much trouble. I plan on performing more thorough tests on my own machine (setting up battles in the editor, perhaps)...

	09-09-2002 19:52									#29
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I got my first GL from a defending unit yesterday I had some MA and MI definding a city and the a$$munch Persians were paying the price for an earlier attack against me. I had a substantial tech advantage and a substantial unit count disadvantage (as always in my games) and I can't remember what he attacked with, might have been 4 or 5 tanks or MA and to my surprise I got a leader.

It was a rather interesting game for me in terms of Leaders, my Iroquois got pretty good land but a serious shaft on resources, no horses or saltpeter so this made things difficult early on and I had to trade to get the cavalry going when war broke out. When the first leader came I decided to use him for an infantry army (I was desperate) and it turned out to be the right call as I needed that army to hold the city under attack. I went on to get 3 or 6 more leaders, the last of which came 2 turns before I discovered the tech that has UN (is it fisson?) and I did a rush build on UN and proceeded to win my first diplomatic victory. It was also my first game to move the Capital using a leader, I had to put the FP in a bad place due to my early game constraints and moving the capital really paid off huge in the late game war.

I read here not that long ago about a unit winning twice in the same turn usually leads to promotion so I abused this idea with Elite Tanks attacking fairly weak units to get alot of leaders.

Alantus

	09-09-2002 19:57									#30
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quote: I read here not that long ago about a unit winning twice in the same turn usually leads to promotion so I abused this idea with Elite Tanks attacking fairly weak units to get alot of leaders.

Tell me more !!!

Is this true ???

I seem indeed to recall some GL's that I obtained and lost in the same turn when I had some lone unit which was in a foolish position in AI teritory but still killed two attackers while defending. In hindsight indeed more than chance suggests ... could it be true?