03-09-2002 03:06									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

I found it at EBgames.com for $14.99

Hopefully this link will work:

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categori...sp?pf_id=189068

	03-09-2002 03:12									#32
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hopefully, there is an Electronics Boutique located close to where you live.

	03-09-2002 04:06									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

I think EB has a spotless record for selling copies of CtP1/2: they always have it. It may not always be the cheapest (local differences can be as much as 20 USD/Euro), but they do always have it (or so I've heard).

XarXo,
I can respect your opinion of the game, but could you elaborate on your reasons? I'm always curious to know what exactly people do/don't like about the game and eager to see if these areas can be improved upon... Contrary to many gaming companies, we listen to our fans

	03-09-2002 06:47									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann I don't know either. But as long as he can't explain why, I will take it just as "crap" without the article. I guess he played it, it wasn't Civ2 and abandoned it, even with mods CTP2 is not Civ2 and not Civ3 either, fortunatly. -Martin

I've played:

- Single player mode (crash each 2 hours), A boring mode.
- Multiplayer mode (crash each time that the game is slighty interesting)
- Editor mode (crash trying to create a great desert continent )

With the last patch, the crashed reduced, but no disappeared, especially with multiplayer games. After two months of playing with this *C*R*A*P* I just found Age of Kings and uninstalled this supposed "game".

After a year, I installed again it (*sic*) and downloaded some mods like the apolyton solve-all and cradle, the game was playable, but, I've to remember that a game must be good with ONLY the OWN creators things.

So, the game is crap? YES

With mods runs ok? YES, but in the moment that we play a mod we AREN'T playing the NORMAL game.

That's all.

BTW: Call to Power II is a game or a Mod Player? This seems more a Quake II -> Half-Life -> CounterStrike evolution than anything, but with the difference that Quake II was amaizing.

Now, the expanded version:

[*] = partially solved in some mods
[**] = totally solved in some mods

- The interface of CTP2 is confusing, full of scrollbars, labels, subwindows, buttons and with a pathetic sequencial access to modify things like cities, I'm sure that probably exist something like CTRL+ALT+C, but why put the confusing system in the place of the easy one?

- The civs in CTP2 sucks, the same as the inexistent leader faces.

- Diplomacy? What's that?

- The horribilous classical/modern art that appear with the windows and start menu is confusing and simply ugly. In start menu you don't know if there are hidden buttons. [*]

- No intelligent help (like Age of Empires) telling you in a small corner "Hey, if you press this that will happen".

- Text font too small. Confusing text font sometimes.[*]

- The tileset is slow when you edit a map and ugly, it seems Civ 2 with bigger tiles. Sometimes causes strange results like blank tiles. [*]

-Editor window always is in the middle of the map, for edit you have to select the terrain, move the window to hide it, edit, go again to the window, change, etc...

- The number of units (especially unusal-function units) is too large and useless.

- No clear tech-tree. No visual tech-tree in the game.

- Repetitive sounds (turn off music, ok, but sounds?? And, why my incan ship people speak english? Nonono! ) [*]

- The biggest map is too small for a game that needs this amount of time. [**]

- The top menu is buggy, sometimes the buttons stay pressed when they shouldn't.

- Why I can access to the Gaia Screen when I'm building ancient things?

- No clear identification of city/civ style with the supposed tribe. [*]

- Unreal expansion of cities. [*]

- All borders = you don't understand anything, some borders = you haven't enough info.

- Full of pop-ups that you must close or select "don't show me anymore" each time.

- Controlled area sin minimap aren't clear (why not apply an alpha channel to a X color area to the map to tell me "all this is yours").

- No advisors. Queues? Yes, but no intelligent. Mayors? Yes, but not intelligent. [*]

- Editor access using the civ2 style, worse than Civ III style (a special program to edit is always better).

- Improvements that appear on maps are ugly and confuses the map (this caused too that tileset is in excessive contrastant, it should be smooth). Improvements number is too large (when simply is the same thing in a bigger level) [*].

- No automatization in some evident things (like rebuild embassies) [**].

- The units in a battle seem robots. The battle results are sometimes unreal [**].

- AI is stupid [*].

Is enough?

	03-09-2002 08:00									#35
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ahhh, a comparison post - I love these...I have no problem with civ3 (I do like it), but there are a host of flaws in that game too.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo With mods runs ok? YES, but in the moment that we play a mod we AREN'T playing the NORMAL game.

There is no disagreement that Activision messed this up. Still, the end result is a good game - ultimately that is all that matters. I don't care how it got there...


INTERFACE ISSUES...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo 1. The interface of CTP2 is confusing, full of scrollbars, labels, subwindows, buttons and with a pathetic sequencial access to modify things like cities, I'm sure that probably exist something like CTRL+ALT+C, but why put the confusing system in the place of the easy one? 2. In start menu you don't know if there are hidden buttons.

1. And I can point to a very confusing civ3 interface - no info about what each building does in the build list - in fact, no hyperlink to the civotopia to find that info.
2. ...and the buttons in civ3 are so small that you need a magnifying glass to find them...

Plus...
- In civ3, units that have moved should be greyed out in the unit list, but they are not. You have to look for the movement numbers to see if that unit has moved, and if you have 50 units in a stack, that becomes tedious...
- A pseudo-group command in civ3 that severely limits flexability in moving a specific number of units...What if I want to move 1/2 of my tanks in a stack to point A and the other 1/2 to point B? It's either move all the units or move 1 unit at a time.

LIES, ALL LIES...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo 1. Repetitive sounds (turn off music, ok, but sounds?? 2. No clear identification of city/civ style with the supposed tribe. 3. Controlled area sin minimap aren't clear (why not apply an alpha channel to a X color area to the map to tell me "all this is yours"). 4. No advisors. No governors.

1. False - volume controls are there...
- Same problem with civ3 - repetition...
2. False - There are distinct city styles for the civs...
3. False - Various filters in CTP2 allow for a player to see certain info - did you check this out????
4. False - (they are there), but who would want to use them in either civ3 or CTP2 anyhow????


PREFERENCES...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo 1. The tileset is slow when you edit a map and ugly, it seems Civ 2 with bigger tiles. 2. The number of units (especially unusal-function units) is too large and useless. 3. The horribilous classical/modern art that appear with the windows and start menu is confusing and simply ugly.

1. In civ3, tiles are too blended - I end up wasting time trying to differentiate between types of tiles. CTP2 tiles are distinct, making them easy to visually define at a glance.
2. Hmmm, I find having more units more interesting - choice is good because it allows for different approaches to a problem and multiple strategic paths.
3. No wonder movies in civ3...

Ultimately, preference issues are a waste of time to argue about.


MISC STUFF...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo The civs in CTP2 sucks, the same as the inexistent leader faces.

- Agreed that it would be nice to have civ-specific units, but CTP2 has government-specific units, allowing for much the same thing, and this also allows for multiple chances to use different special units during the course of the game.
- CTP2 has a much deeper government tree, and a more logical tech tree - in fact the CTP2 tech tree is not limited to a tech whoring system that rewards a player for ignoring science research and simply buying tech that you need, as well as a
the cvi3 sliding tech reseasrch rate that prevents a player from ever falling too far behind - bottom line is a civ3 welfare system that rewards shoddy play.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Diplomacy? What's that?

The one area where civ3 is clearly better, IMO, but offset by tech whoring issue...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo No clear tech-tree. No visual tech-tree in the game.

- No civ3 poster provided with the basic game either...
- No hyperlinks to civotopia for units/buildings/wonders, as well as no labels on the in-game civ3 tech tree as to what each unit/building/wonder is.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo And, why my incan ship people speak english? Nonono!

This isn't AOE2...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo The biggest map is too small for a game that needs this amount of time.

Easily edited...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Why I can access to the Gaia Screen when I'm building ancient things?

..and why can I see the rocketship in civ3 when researching ancient techs?????

quote: Originally posted by XarXo All borders = you don't understand anything, some borders = you haven't enough info.

????????????????? - CTP2 setup is superior because of the inclusion of both city and national borders. CTP2 city borders make for a more user-friendly way to lay out your cities. civ3 does not include this feature, so city planning does not have the visual help that allows a player to pre-plan at a glance.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo No intelligent building queues.

...as opposed to the flexability to easily edit the queues in CTP2 - it's a nightmare to remove the top item in the civ3 queue...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Editor access using the civ2 style, worse than Civ III style (a special program to edit is always better).

- The comparison between the ease to mod CTP2 and civ3 is laughable - CTP2 wins hands down.
- No scripting ability in civ3...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Improvements that appear on maps are ugly and confuses the map (this caused too that tileset is in excessive contrastant, it should be smooth).

Three words regarding civ3 - Infinite Railroad Sleaze. Talk about an eyesore and a strategic game killer...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Improvements number is too large (when simply is the same thing in a bigger level).

- Again, civ3 loses this because there is little strategic though as to what you will build because your choices are very limited...By the modern age all I'm doing is cleaning up pollution, whereas in CTP2 I can also upgrade existing tile improvements. Vastly superior because it maintains interest in micromanagement because of positive effects.
- No sea improvements in civ3.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo The units in a battle seem robots. The battle results are sometimes unreal (solved with mods).

...unlike the lack of HP and FP in civ3 that brought the infamous spearman vs tank battles so heavily reported in civ3. BTW, this was never a problem in CTP2.

Next time, please get your facts straight...(are you sure you aren't splangy)

Any other civ3 fanboys want to step up to the plate????

	03-09-2002 08:32									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: - Repetitive sounds (turn off music, ok, but sounds??

Turn the volume down

	03-09-2002 08:34									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by XarXo After a year, I installed again it (*sic*) and downloaded some mods like the apolyton solve-all and cradle, the game was playable, but, I've to remember that a game must be good with ONLY the OWN creators things. So, the game is crap? YES With mods runs ok? YES, but in the moment that we play a mod we AREN'T playing the NORMAL game.

We are here to discuss fun or semanthics. Who cares if the game is infinite times better with mods! Thats the porpuse of the modding ability to evolve and never gets boring. Sorry but this should be a positive point to CTP2 not a negative one.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Single player mode (crash each 2 hours), A boring mode.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Editor mode (crash trying to create a great desert continent )

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The tileset is slow when you edit a map and ugly, it seems Civ 2 with bigger tiles. Sometimes causes strange results like blank tiles. [*]

Where did you bought your game? Or what is you computer like?
I know crashs happens and multiplayer option but not in single player. All this stuff never happenned to me. That is really odd.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The interface of CTP2 is confusing, full of scrollbars, labels, subwindows, buttons and with a pathetic sequencial access to modify things like cities, I'm sure that probably exist something like CTRL+ALT+C, but why put the confusing system in the place of the easy one?

you just need to press 'o' for what you want here.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The civs in CTP2 sucks, the same as the inexistent leader faces.

[**]

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Diplomacy? What's that?

[*] see the new diplomod.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The horribilous classical/modern art that appear with the windows and start menu is confusing and simply ugly. In start menu you don't know if there are hidden buttons. [*] - Text font too small. Confusing text font sometimes.[*] - No intelligent help (like Age of Empires) telling you in a small corner "Hey, if you press this that will happen". - The number of units (especially unusal-function units) is too large and useless. - Full of pop-ups that you must close or select "don't show me anymore" each time. - Improvements that appear on maps are ugly and confuses the map (this caused too that tileset is in excessive contrastant, it should be smooth). Improvements number is too large (when simply is the same thing in a bigger level) [*]. - The units in a battle seem robots. The battle results are sometimes unreal [**]. - Editor access using the civ2 style, worse than Civ III style (a special program to edit is always better).

Too personal stuff. Most of them i think the opposite of you. You may or may not like what is here. It depends on the person. Those are probably the reason why you disliked CTP2 and others loved it.
Yet you answers made me wonder if you did actually played this game modded . Since most of the stuff wasnt even touched by the mods (Battle, text font, UI pictures) or the mods made the opposite of what you said (number of improvements were increased)

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The top menu is buggy, sometimes the buttons stay pressed when they shouldn't. - Why I can access to the Gaia Screen when I'm building ancient things?

Small stuff. i dont see them as problem

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - No clear identification of city/civ style with the supposed tribe. [*]

I guess you are not comparing to civ3 right? CTP2 has 100 of city graphics and much more with the mods

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Repetitive sounds (turn off music, ok, but sounds?? And, why my incan ship people speak english? Nonono! ) [*]

You expected them to speak incan .
Dont you like to hear what the unit has to say to you? They talk some neat stuff and if they did speak incan for me it would be only noisy.
The musics though are trully repited over an over but there is a fix for them. See the FAQ.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - All borders = you don't understand anything, some borders = you haven't enough info.

Where did get this option of some borders? Or you have them or dont.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Controlled area sin minimap aren't clear (why not apply an alpha channel to a X color area to the map to tell me "all this is yours").

Isnt this going to make the map more dificult to understand. And you would loose the map colors wich i love.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - Unreal expansion of cities. [*]

Why?

quote: Originally posted by XarXo - The biggest map is too small for a game that needs this amount of time. [**] - No advisors. Queues? Yes, but no intelligent. Mayors? Yes, but not intelligent. [*] - No automatization in some evident things (like rebuild embassies) [**]. - AI is stupid [*].

Agreed but as you said fixed or partially fixed

quote: Originally posted by XarXo -Editor window always is in the middle of the map, for edit you have to select the terrain, move the window to hide it, edit, go again to the window, change, etc... - No clear tech-tree. No visual tech-tree in the game.

Totally agree. This should be fixed.

	03-09-2002 08:40									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: - Unreal expansion of cities. [*]

In fact i see this as better in CtP2. Each tile closest to the small settlement is worked first then then outer rings as it grows to city size, makes sense. More logical than Civ3 anyhow, if your making comparisons.

	03-09-2002 18:42									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Ahhh, a comparison post - I love these...

Is not a comparision, CTP2 is a CRAP, but Civ III isn't especially a wonder for me. It almost doesn' crashed when it was released and is playable without mods. But doesn't have Multiplayer and has a partially hidden interface.

	03-09-2002 19:02									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by XarXo CTP2 is a crap, better buy Civilization III.

Ahhh, but you started this little comparison festival with the above statement. And you provided the reasons why you thought CTP2 is crap. So all I'm doing is taking your comments and replying/rebutting...

You may want to reread my comparison post above - reorganized for clarity's sake.

	03-09-2002 19:11									#41
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Ahhh, but you started this little comparison festival with the above statement. And you provided the reasons why you thought CTP2 is crap. So all I'm doing is taking your comments and replying/rebutting... You may want to reread my comparison post above - reorganized for clarity's sake.

So, is better buy a game that is older and is worse than the other? And this is compare? For compare you must expose info about something in contrast to the info of the other thing. I just said that CtP2 is a crap (and it is), so better buy something LESS WORSE. That's all.

Note that games like Civilization I, Civilization II and Civilization II Test of Time now (almost for me) are crappier than Call to Power II. Graphics is a part of the game, if I want to play for the gaming experience I will play Civilization Online, a TELNET oldie mud-like game.

	03-09-2002 19:34									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by XarXo For compare you must expose info about something in contrast to the info of the other thing. I just said that CtP2 is a crap (and it is), so better buy something LESS WORSE. That's all.

You did not say anything about civ3 being LESS WORSE than CTP2 until your last post, so my posts were based on the the statements that CTP2 was crap and people should buy civ3.

Next time, try to be more clear as to what you are thinking...We are not mindreaders.

And I get the feeling that you are not really a fan of TBS games and lean toward RTS. If that is the case, any TBS game would be crap to you. You won't find too much support/sympathy for your viewpoints here.

	03-09-2002 21:45									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

CtP2, with a mod there all extensivily worked on a massive. Cradle and MM2 dont know much about WAW but same applies.

CtP2 is easily the best Civ game around with so many in depth options and units, and anything that Civ3 has (which I sadly bought thinking it was going to be a great game) has over CtP2 is most probably being implemented into CtP2 anyway.


In my opinion the original unmodded CtP2 isnt great mainly due to crap AI and diplomacy. With mods the AI kicks ass (AIFrenzy) and diplomod makes diplomacy very good. The original game still has much more features than Civ3, is more in depth and ALOT more imaginative with things Uncoventional Warfare, Ocean cities, PW, Lots of units etc.

With a mod installed with CtP2 the game easily surpasses Civ3. The modding is still going strong too. Look at the other CtP forum to see what i mean and big mods are still being made along with scenarios being released all the time .


To XarXo

quote: After a year, I installed again it (*sic*) and downloaded some mods like the apolyton solve-all and cradle, the game was playable, but, I've to remember that a game must be good with ONLY the OWN creators things.

AND so what!!!!!

i dont understand your point at all. Its a great game modded but a bad game not. THIS ISNT BAD THIS IS GOOD. Due to the modding capabilities of CtP2 and lack on Civ3 I believe this game will survive much much longer. Although you will always get the die hard "Sid Miere" fans.


And why is your CtP2 SO buggy i dont get that either. I get no bugs at all.

Anyway this game is definitly a worthy buy and in my opinion the best Civ game there is and i have (Civ2, CtP, CtP2, AC and civ3) and once downloaded Civ1 lol .

Im gunna start a new game now anyway as a got my ass kicked in the last CtP2 game i had so cya soon

SMIFFGIG

	03-09-2002 22:38									#44
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian And I get the feeling that you are not really a fan of TBS games and lean toward RTS. If that is the case, any TBS game would be crap to you. You won't find too much support/sympathy for your viewpoints here.

I created elTARANNA.com , the biggest all-civilizations
web site in spanish, I created more than 40 maps and scenarios for Civ II, and I translated Civ II MGE to spanish. So... Sorry... I'm not especially fan of real-time "Strategy"??

When CtP II arised and Civ III appeared, I abandoned the portal, and don't ask me why, you can see the reasons in this thread. I'm just TOTALLY diasappointed with that pair of crap games, I just wait for the PtW expansion to look if Civ III turns in a decent thing to play.

Sorry, I've the special ability to offense the people with just some words, is a defect, but is how I am. Be patient!

About the second one, this is just your opinion, like me.

Finally, about the controversial of an incan ship that speaks english, is just that the ship should make a small sound of wood and water, like (for example) civ III or like (another example) Alpha Centauri. No like (for example) Empire Earth where you play Ancient Greece and the units speak english, and not like (for example) Call to Power II.

	03-09-2002 23:11									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by XarXo ...With mods runs ok? YES, but in the moment that we play a mod we AREN'T playing the NORMAL game.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo I created elTARANNA.com , the biggest all-civilizations web site in spanish, I created more than 40 maps and scenarios for Civ II, and I translated Civ II MGE to spanish. So... Sorry... I'm not especially fan of real-time "Strategy"??

Laugh of the day...

Anyone see the irony in the above two statements - in one breath XarXo bashes CTP2 because it had to be modded (and not worthy to be played by anyone...), and then he defends HIS need to modify civ2.

And before differentiating between a Mod and a Scenario, realize that the current Apolyton Pack (2.0) does not change the basic structure of the game (tech tree, wonders, units) but qualifies more as a patch to do what Activision should of done - and it is considered to be one of the best setups currently available.

Mods like Cradle, MedMod, WAW fall more along the lines of Scenarios...

Nobody here praises Activision because they did drop the ball on the game. Still, this does not take away one iota from what the Modding community here has done to make CTP2 the best civ experience available.

	03-09-2002 23:13									#46
	Remove this text

Sorry? Where when you create a map or a scenario you change anything of the game?

Don't confuse Modpacks/Themepacks with scenarios and maps.

Bah... This is useless... Enjoy CtP2.

But, sorry, for me that game continues in the classification of "crap"

Just a final question: The first thing that you do with a game is create a modfile for it?

Last edited by XarXo on 03-09-2002 at 23:19

	03-09-2002 23:30									#47
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Sorry? Where when you create a map or a scenario you change anything of the game? Don't confuse Modpacks/Themepacks with scenarios and maps.

Modpacks/Themepacks change many of the basic elements of the game. Scenarios, by their very nature, often change elements of the game because they have a narrow focus, so adding units, buildings and so forth help fill out the the dead spots in a game - but that is not a requirement for a Scenario.

Please read my post explaining what the Apolyton Pack is - I thought I made it clear... The Apolyton Pack boosts the AI in many areas without changing units/buildings/wonders/tech. It operates as a patch...

I will not explain again.

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Bah... This is useless... Enjoy CtP2.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

quote: Originally posted by XarXo Just a final question: The first thing that you do with a game is create a modfile for it?

For a suprising number of people - yes - again, everyone here agrees that Activision released a half-completed product.

The same seemed to be the case for civ3...

	04-09-2002 00:15									#48
	Got spare money?

I found Call To Power 1 at Wal*Mart and bought it, Do you know how I can get the mods from CTP2 to CTP1? Can I even put them in CTP1?

	04-09-2002 00:28									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sorry, gotta have CTP2

	04-09-2002 01:01									#50
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Unless you wanna do a whole lot of translating text files...

	04-09-2002 04:24									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Damn.....o well ill just have to live with CTP1 for 2 weeks..........

	04-09-2002 06:40									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I had some wonderful tuime with CTP1 for amost a year and half. So i hope ypou enjoy conquering space and sea. Because i had plenty of it. But CTP2 with mods is the best game of all times.

Lets no confuse CTP2 modded is wonderful, but Activision does not have the nick name crapvision for nothing.

	04-09-2002 09:09									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Crapvision, never heard that one...

	04-09-2002 13:04									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

CtP1 has its own mods, check out the topped thread in the CtP1-General forum for details.

	04-09-2002 16:53									#55
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

how about Nonactiv-vision