03-09-2002 10:58									#1
	Improving the U.N Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi Guys,

I know this debate has occured before, but I was thinking about how the U.N could be improved beyond it's current Diplomatic Victory!
1) Assuming that they introduce unit trading, and units which require improvements to build, then I could envisage the U.N being a requirement for the construction of "Peacekeepers"-these units would have a high defense strength, good movement and low attack strength, and you could give them to other Civs to help protect their cities from attack!
2) With the advent of the Radio, I'd like to see it possible to achieve multilateral diplomatic agreements, such as multilateral trade deals and MPP's/Alliances. Multilateral peace deals or declarations of war, on the other hand, should require the U.N to perform-in my opinion. At the very least, the U.N should be required if you want to act as an intermediary in peace-talks for two warring civs. (I realise, of course, that all of this requires expanded diplomatic options.)
3) As I have mentioned elsewhere, I'd like to see the senate return. If this were to happen, I'd like to see the U.N regain it's role in Civ2, which is the ability to make peace or declare war without the senate's approval 50% of the time!

On a final note, I'd love to see a return of the "Marco Polo" Wonder, either called "Journeys of Marco Polo" or even "The Silk Road". This wonder would require at least 5 markets to build, and would not be as powerful as the original-only allowing you civ communications with all civs on the SAME LANDMASS! On a standard Earth Map, for example, A German "Marco Polo" Wonder would grant that civ communication with all civs in Europe, Asia and the Middle East! A Zulu "Marco Polo", on the other hand, would give communications with Civs in Africa and the Middle East. An Aztec "Marco Polo" would give communication with all civs in North and South America.
Anyway, that's what I'd love to see. Probably too late to see it in PtW, but I can hope to see it in either a future patch OR even a future expansion!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	03-09-2002 12:32									#2
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Those are great ideas! Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen. Guess we'll have to wait for Civ 4.

As for the Marco Polo wonder... I think it would be rather useless. When I play the game, I usualy have contact with all civilizations on my continent very early. And it doesn't cost me a lot, because I make contact by exploration or conquest (they didn't even know what hit them!).

M.M. te salutat

	03-09-2002 16:03									#3
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I agree with Martinus. In nearly every game I can remember I've had full contact with civs on my continent by the early middle ages at the latest and full maps of the world by the late middle ages. I made a mod where contact trading was defered to Nationalism and map trading was defered to Navigation. In this case a wonder like that would be useful.

As far as you UN ideas, they are all contingent on a bunch of other rules changes first. Unless those rules changes are enacted, the suggestions are kind of a moot point. Not that the suggestions aren't good, they'd probably make for a more interesting diplomatic game.

	03-09-2002 16:33									#4
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I think the U.N. should work like the Planetary Council in SMAC, with the civ who built it getting extra votes.

	03-09-2002 19:33									#5
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I support all your ideas except the last one. In my point of view a multinational organization like the UN is of course much much stronger than just a little local senate. Sure in his country he is powerful but what power did he have against the whole world. So I think the guy building the UN should get 100% free hand in his diplomacy as he always could cover his attacks as "peace-keeping missions" (small hint to the reality ). I believe when the UN decides something no little naughty senate can do anything about it

btw I didn’t like the senate idea in Civ II and I’m more than happy that they are gone forever but this is another story (or thread).

	03-09-2002 19:59									#6
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I agree with the first two suggestions, but NOT those regarding the Senate and Marco Polo wonder. The first suggestion is really cool! I like the idea of being able to give Peacekeepers to certain warring civs, but that would be hard to implement, especially if the AI controls the UN. Here's some of my thoughts on your points.

1. How would the AI make the determination as to who gets the Peacekeeper units? The AI remembers who's screwed them over in the past, so what if the defending civ in a war was a culprit to the person controlling the UN? Even if the human player controlled it, the same event would likely occur. If anything, Peacekeepers should be doled out to the appropriate Civs automatically (i.e., once the UN is built), and should have a 0 offense and high defense.

2. I agree with everything you said, except the statement that the UN should be required for making multilateral declarations of war.

3. Ugh no way! I know the Senate provides more realism, but it just takes away from the overall "fun" of the game. Man I couldn't stand it when you would be forced into a peace treaty with a backstabbing AI.

4. I think I've always had communications with every Civ on the same continent. It's the ones across an ocean that are the problem. How about making it be more realistic and provide the Silk luxury to the Civ that builds it? After all, the Silk Road was really what the trade route was called.

	04-09-2002 11:11									#7
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Actually Martinus, I don't think that these ideas are doomed to languish until Civ4! The Firaxis team has mentioned that both extra diplomacy options AND buildings as prerequisites for units are both high on their wishlists! Unlikely they will be in PtW (which was mostly focussed on MP), but I feel there is a reasonable chance that it could make an appearance in either a future patch OR a future XP!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	04-09-2002 19:54									#8
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Get rid of it, I hate it.

Admittedly its because i lost my fist ever game to it. I think it was the germans which is frankly ridiculuos

	08-09-2002 20:44									#9
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Well, more diplomatic options and an improved U.N. are not necessarely the same thing. I guess PtW will give us options like unit trading or forcing civs into making peace with other civs. I really don't think we'll see an improved U.N. in a future patch, since it would mean a maior change to the game, which is usually done only in an XP - if at all. And I don't think there is going to be another XP after PtW. But you never know...
I would love to see your ideas implemented in a future patch or XP though!

M.M.

Last edited by Martinus Magnificus on 10-09-2002 at 17:20

	08-09-2002 21:38									#10
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I'd really like to get back the good old Alpha Centauri concept: global projects, UN-charta against atrocities, global elections, anti-pollution-treaties (wasn't in AC, pretty useful though)!

	14-09-2002 05:26									#11
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Maybe the UN could give rights of passage permanently against everyone else(even if your at war with them).
I think Civ2's system of UN helping you to declare war on someone was good.. maybe in civ3 it would let you declare war without diplomatic penalties, or prevent others warring on you(dissalowing alliances or mutual pacts against you)
Civ3 should have the old republics limitations on declaring war.. its only possible if people want it (harder to do if your nations population comprises the enemys race).

Didn't the old UN give embassies everywhere too.. that was good.Maybe it could reduce spying by half.. something really useful(makes sense in terms of these Iraqi weapons inspectors).

Of course the real UN has been innefective in stopping millitary action.. it is just a tool of the major nations will to yield.

	16-09-2002 20:36									#12
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hi ,

we should have UN troops , .......

have a nice day

	17-09-2002 07:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , we should have UN troops , ....... have a nice day

I was going to sat that, but you beat me to it. There has to be some bonus for having them. It's something that a nation won't just commite units to.

	17-09-2002 16:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Zarn I was going to sat that, but you beat me to it. There has to be some bonus for having them. It's something that a nation won't just commite units to.

hi ,

who ever has the un should be able to use them , .......

to sad we can use scripted events in civIII , .......

there has to be a way to implement this , .... somehow , ....

have a nice day